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jeffb 01-15-2010 09:40 AM

National Post: Raptors mid season grades
 
Quote:

MARCUS BANKS - B-
ANDREA BARGNANI - B
MARCO BELINELLI - C
CHRIS BOSH - A
JOSE CALDERON - C
DEMAR DEROZAN - B-
REGGIE EVANS - Inc
JARRETT JACK - B
AMIR JOHNSON - B
RASHO NESTEROVIC - C
PATRICK O'BRYANT - Inc
HEDO TURKOGLU - D
SONNY WEEMS - B
ANTOINE WRIGHT - D
JAY TRIANO - C+
Turkoglu holds key to own success

CB4Real 01-15-2010 09:43 AM

wow jay get c+ wtf? more like a F+ for those fucked up combos. Hedo is more like a C- if u ask me and same with wright

jeffb 01-15-2010 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB4Real (Post 310566)
wow jay get c+ wtf? more like a F+ for those fucked up combos. Hedo is more like a C- if u ask me and same with wright

Hedo gets a D and Triano gets a C+? lol

TORaptor4Ever 01-15-2010 09:49 AM

Triano's a game under .500.

Hedo's making $10M/yr and is sucking hard.

Pretty simple really.

Bmats7 01-15-2010 10:04 AM

I think these are fair rankings. Banks should be a B though I think.

Turk/Wright definitely 2 veteran players that are not doing their job right now.

jeffb 01-15-2010 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB4Real (Post 310566)
wow jay get c+ wtf? more like a F+ for those fucked up combos. Hedo is more like a C- if u ask me

+1

henrymakepeace 01-15-2010 10:11 AM

The team has a record below .500. Why so many Bs?

My grades:

MARCUS BANKS - C+
ANDREA Bargnani - C+
MARCO BELINELLI - C
CHRIS Bosh - A-
JOSE Calderon - C-
DEMAR DEROZAN - C
REGGIE EVANS - Inc
JARRETT JACK - B
AMIR JOHNSON - B-
RASHO NESTEROVIC - C
PATRICK O'BRYANT - Inc
HEDO TURKOGLU - C-
SONNY WEEMS - B
ANTOINE WRIGHT - C-
JAY TRIANO - C-

Bmats7 01-15-2010 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB4Real (Post 310566)
wow jay get c+ wtf? more like a F+ for those fucked up combos. Hedo is more like a C- if u ask me and same with wright

A coach who was 20 games under .500 last year... comes into this year and brings us to .500.

How is that a "Fail"

?

fancylad 01-15-2010 10:50 AM

My grades:

MARCUS BANKS - B
ANDREA Bargnani - B+
MARCO BELINELLI - C
CHRIS Bosh - A-
JOSE Calderon - C+
DEMAR DEROZAN - B-
REGGIE EVANS - Inc
JARRETT JACK - B
AMIR JOHNSON - B-
RASHO NESTEROVIC - C
PATRICK O'BRYANT - Inc
HEDO TURKOGLU - C
SONNY WEEMS - B
ANTOINE WRIGHT - C
JAY TRIANO - C

Dann38 01-15-2010 11:11 AM

Hedo gets a big fat F for being a big fat f...

INSIDER 01-15-2010 11:19 AM

im going to go to bat for Hedo in this one... how does he get a D?
his stats alone are pretty imppressive 13/5/5... and while i know stats dont mean squat in most cases, he's been a key factor in a bunch of games this season.

i like to usually defend the scapegoat on occasion, and this is one of those times. i definitely think he's getting a ton of undeserved blame for this season and the teams underachieving, and its not fair.
He's in a slump right now and that makes it even worse, but that still doesnt warrant the pounding he's been taking in the media recently.
i love bargs, always will... but earlier in the year he went through a similar slump (and came out), and no one really batted an eye... he got off the hook a lot because "he's young", "he's learning", blah, blah... yet when Hedo slumps, people only look at his paycheque and the length... they dont care to offer any sympathy or excuses... they just grill him right away.

i say we give him the benefit of the doubt for now and lay off for a bit... the D grade is pretty harsh IMO, because i dont think anyone putting up 13/5/5 is close to failing, but thats just me.
bargs is putting up 16/6 and everyone is raving about him... its confusing.

fancylad 01-15-2010 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INSIDER (Post 310640)
im going to go to bat for Hedo in this one... how does he get a D?
his stats alone are pretty imppressive 13/5/5... and while i know stats dont mean squat in most cases, he's been a key factor in a bunch of games this season.

i like to usually defend the scapegoat on occasion, and this is one of those times. i definitely think he's getting a ton of undeserved blame for this season and the teams underachieving, and its not fair.
He's in a slump right now and that makes it even worse, but that still doesnt warrant the pounding he's been taking in the media recently.
i love bargs, always will... but earlier in the year he went through a similar slump (and came out), and no one really batted an eye... he got off the hook a lot because "he's young", "he's learning", blah, blah... yet when Hedo slumps, people only look at his paycheque and the length... they dont care to offer any sympathy or excuses... they just grill him right away.

i say we give him the benefit of the doubt for now and lay off for a bit... the D grade is pretty harsh IMO, because i dont think anyone putting up 13/5/5 is close to failing, but thats just me.
bargs is putting up 16/6 and everyone is raving about him... its confusing.

agreed. I know he's had a crappy few games recently, but he's also had some fantastic performances and been a big player in many games. you don't average those numbers playing like chop liver all year long.

jeffb 01-15-2010 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INSIDER (Post 310640)

i say we give him the benefit of the doubt for now and lay off for a bit... the D grade is pretty harsh IMO, because i dont think anyone putting up 13/5/5 is close to failing, but thats just me.
bargs is putting up 16/6 and everyone is raving about him... its confusing.

Well Bargs is averaging 17/6.5 + 1.4bpg and he's improving as the season goes on while Turkoglu seems to not be improving at all.

That being said, the stats are somewhat close, but Bargnani makes less money then Hedo, his PPG/RPG numbers are better and imo has impacted more games then Turk for sure. I do agree with you though that Hedo deserves better then a D.

C

Claudius 01-15-2010 11:27 AM

When you show instances of not caring on the defensive end whatsoever, looking at teammates and relying on help defence solely you deserve a D.

There are others that deserve the same mark.

acopur 01-15-2010 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 310570)
Triano's a game under .500.

Hedo's making $10M/yr and is sucking hard.

Pretty simple really.

making it that simple is ridicolous..
raptors should have been over .500 so far..his strange rotations (especially lately), his commanding, his three ball-handler love make raptors a game under 0.500..
hedo is not doing well..i agree he is a C- and half of this grade directly belongs to triano..C+ is much for him..

MARCUS BANKS - C
ANDREA Bargnani - B
MARCO BELINELLI - C-
CHRIS Bosh - A-
JOSE Calderon - C-
DEMAR DEROZAN - C
JARRETT JACK - B-
AMIR JOHNSON - B-
RASHO NESTEROVIC - C
HEDO TURKOGLU - C-
SONNY WEEMS - B-
ANTOINE WRIGHT - D
JAY TRIANO - D-

acopur 01-15-2010 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmats7 (Post 310599)
A coach who was 20 games under .500 last year... comes into this year and brings us to .500.

How is that a "Fail"

?

this is not the same team..

XiaominWu 01-15-2010 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acopur (Post 310763)
this is not the same team..

exactly. pretty much had to start from scratch.

i commend JT for the job he has done.

RAPMAN 01-15-2010 01:32 PM

Hedo with a "D". Sounds right. All the Hedo backers saying he's playing good, start watching the games more closely. High expectations, low output. By far, the biggest disappointment this season.

I was one of the biggest Bargnani naysayers. But that dude has been showing he can defend the Center Position. If his shot isn't falling, he starting to understand that he can contribute in other ways by rebounding and playing defense.

Bosh with an A. He has bringing his A game for his whole career. The Raptor brass has always been trying to find another "A" type player to complement Bosh. From the failed experiments with JO and Hedo, and the drafting of Hoffa, but hopefully Bargnani can keep up the good work and Derozan can continue to develop.

INSIDER 01-15-2010 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAPMAN (Post 310787)
Hedo with a "D". Sounds right. All the Hedo backers saying he's playing good, start watching the games more closely. High expectations, low output. By far, the biggest disappointment this season.


i dont see it....
he's getting a bad grade because there were high expectations... yet his output is low?

last year 17/5/5
this year 13/5/5 - playing 3 minutes less a game, taking 3 less shots per game

im not a mathmatician, but given the fewer game time and less shots, i'm pretty sure he's putting up identical stats as last yer, per minutes played.

so how exactly is it that he's not living up to expectations, and putting up lower numbers?

this is what irks me, what exactly was everyone expecting from Hedo?
how can you give a D grade to someoone who is playing at the exact same level (stats wise) as he was the previous year?
he is the exact same player, the only difference is - he's on a far worse team.
the holes that we are seeing in his game were always there... they are just magnified this season because the team he plays on is weaker than his previous team.

his limitations on the ball court havent differed from last season. the positives that his teamates provided him with last year are what changed.
same player.... different team.

MikeToronto 01-15-2010 01:56 PM

Bargnani is an A in my books. :clapping:

lonewolfpoet 01-15-2010 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henrymakepeace (Post 310598)
The team has a record below .500. Why so many Bs?

My grades:

MARCUS BANKS - C+
ANDREA Bargnani - C+
MARCO BELINELLI - C
CHRIS Bosh - A-
JOSE Calderon - C-
DEMAR DEROZAN - C
REGGIE EVANS - Inc
JARRETT JACK - B
AMIR JOHNSON - B-
RASHO NESTEROVIC - C
PATRICK O'BRYANT - Inc
HEDO TURKOGLU - C-
SONNY WEEMS - B
ANTOINE WRIGHT - C-
JAY TRIANO - C-

No way you can rank Bargnani below a B. He has done a better job then Jack, Amir and Weems.

Bmats7 01-15-2010 02:05 PM

D for complaining to the media. D for being out of shape. D for laughing after blowout losses. D for only being effective with the ball in his hands.

If only Turkoglu's D was for defence.

And how can anyone give Bosh an A-? He's in the race for MVP on NBA.com. If you are potentially the most fucking valuable player in the NBA or atleast in that conversation.... you deserve ATLEAST an A... sheesh.

lonewolfpoet 01-15-2010 02:06 PM

Bosh deserves an A+

acopur 01-15-2010 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmats7 (Post 310813)
D for complaining to the media. D for being out of shape. D for laughing after blowout losses. D for only being effective with the ball in his hands.

If only Turkoglu's D was for defence.

And how can anyone give Bosh an A-? He's in the race for MVP on NBA.com. If you are potentially the most fucking valuable player in the NBA or atleast in that conversation.... you deserve ATLEAST an A... sheesh.

team is under 0.500 i cant see anyone deserves an A+..
this grades include every game up to the present..

and bosh for mvp ??..please dont make me laugh..there is no possibility unless raptors achieves a solid success..look at the history..with an 0.500 record you cant be an MVP..

he is the best player so far in raptors but;
he takes so many jumpshots sometimes..(first 10 games)
he lacks the ability of passing teammates when the opponents doubleteam him..(entire season)
he turns the ball over a lot..(lately)
his help defense is still a weakness..
he is not a leader type of player that carry his team on his shoulders..(skills,chemistry,etc.)

those are the answers how i could give Bosh an A-..
being the best player on a team doesnt mean an automatic A+..A- is a really good grade..

RAPMAN 01-15-2010 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INSIDER (Post 310801)
i dont see it....
he's getting a bad grade because there were high expectations... yet his output is low?

last year 17/5/5
this year 13/5/5 - playing 3 minutes less a game, taking 3 less shots per game

im not a mathmatician, but given the fewer game time and less shots, i'm pretty sure he's putting up identical stats as last yer, per minutes played.

so how exactly is it that he's not living up to expectations, and putting up lower numbers?

this is what irks me, what exactly was everyone expecting from Hedo?
how can you give a D grade to someoone who is playing at the exact same level (stats wise) as he was the previous year?
he is the exact same player, the only difference is - he's on a far worse team.
the holes that we are seeing in his game were always there... they are just magnified this season because the team he plays on is weaker than his previous team.

his limitations on the ball court havent differed from last season. the positives that his teamates provided him with last year are what changed.
same player.... different team.

He claimed that his goal was to make the all-star team. In Orlando, he played at near all-star level. Heck, he won the most improved player for one year. His stats have declined slightly, but just from his play on court this season, can you seriously say that he has played at near all-star level. That's a big no. He has been the one of the most inconsistent players for the Raptors, and doesn't bring the energy or intensity every night. That's the biggest disappointment considering he is the second highest paid player in the roster.

Rene_13 01-15-2010 03:09 PM

Yeah, I think Bosh deserves an A+, Barg a B+ and Hedo is more like a C- or C. For Triano, I'd say he's deserving of a C. We need to understand that his roster is not one of the easier ones to handle in the NBA, given the lack of any clear defensive stoppers and amount of newcomers. I'd like to look at these ratings at the end of the season and see who improves and who regresses.

INSIDER 01-15-2010 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAPMAN (Post 310844)
He claimed that his goal was to make the all-star team. In Orlando, he played at near all-star level. Heck, he won the most improved player for one year. His stats have declined slightly, but just from his play on court this season, can you seriously say that he has played at near all-star level. That's a big no. He has been the one of the most inconsistent players for the Raptors, and doesn't bring the energy or intensity every night. That's the biggest disappointment considering he is the second highest paid player in the roster.

while i agree he isnt worth the fat contract he signed in the offseason, i cant fault him for being somewhat inefficient this season.
the reason why he looked so good last year was because he played on a winning team. Orlando won the East and had an outstanding record.
Hedo reaped the benefits of playing with such a strong team.

out of all the players on this squad, its a shame that the team's overall record plays the biggest factor in what Hedo's grade is.
but its understndable, seeing as how he's the big offseason acquisition.

but i guarentee you, if hedo was playing the way he has all year, and we were 30-10 right now, he'd have an A beside his name.
regardless of how he plays, i believe Hedo's worth is directly connected to the raps winning %. and that is unfair.

TORaptor4Ever 01-15-2010 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acopur (Post 310832)
team is under 0.500 i cant see anyone deserves an A+..
this grades include every game up to the present..

and bosh for mvp ??..please dont make me laugh..there is no possibility unless raptors achieves a solid success..look at the history..with an 0.500 record you cant be an MVP..

he is the best player so far in raptors but;
he takes so many jumpshots sometimes..(first 10 games)
he lacks the ability of passing teammates when the opponents doubleteam him..(entire season)
he turns the ball over a lot..(lately)
his help defense is still a weakness..
he is not a leader type of player that carry his team on his shoulders..(skills,chemistry,etc.)

those are the answers how i could give Bosh an A-..
being the best player on a team doesnt mean an automatic A+..A- is a really good grade..

Wha??? :confused2:

1) Bosh is shooting over 50% from the field. That's OUTSTANDING for a big man with his type of game. Have you seen Dirk's in comparison?

2) Passing out of doubleteams... he found Bargs for that huge 3 didn't he? Still a work in progress but not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

3) Turns the ball over a lot? LMAO... look at the number of TO's he avgs on the season. Don't judge his overall performance based on TWO games. Jeez....

4) Help defense still a weakness? Really? Because when the TEAM is playing good defense he looks fantastic down there. There are times when he'll have to back off to avoid trouble though.. because we need him on the other end.

5) Not the type of leader that will carry this team to a title.... yeah.... neither are D12, Kobe, Wade, or ANY other star outside of probably Dirk, Lebron or A.I. (guys who took their teams to the finals without another dominant all-star player). Give Bosh a LEGIT star to play with and a team that doesn't change it's roster every damn season.

Bosh is doing everything that he can to win us games.

He's PLAYING like a MVP. He just doesn't have the team around him to back him up right now. Hopefully that will change.

TORaptor4Ever 01-15-2010 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INSIDER (Post 310853)
while i agree he isnt worth the fat contract he signed in the offseason, i cant fault him for being somewhat inefficient this season.
the reason why he looked so good last year was because he played on a winning team. Orlando won the East and had an outstanding record.
Hedo reaped the benefits of playing with such a strong team.

out of all the players on this squad, its a shame that the team's overall record plays the biggest factor in what Hedo's grade is.
but its understndable, seeing as how he's the big offseason acquisition.

but i guarentee you, if hedo was playing the way he has all year, and we were 30-10 right now, he'd have an A beside his name.
regardless of how he plays, i believe Hedo's worth is directly connected to the raps winning %. and that is unfair.

Hedo's grade reflects his effort (relative to his pay).

If he TRIED harder (played D, hit the glass) no one would have a problem with him.

Do you see anyone complaining about Bargs anymore?

Gurk 01-15-2010 04:02 PM

Bargs deserves higher IMO. :yeah:

jeffb 01-15-2010 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurk (Post 310877)
Bargs deserves higher IMO. :yeah:

Higher then a B?

Nahhhhh, that's about right, he struggled for a good portion of December and has come on the last few weeks.

Gurk 01-15-2010 04:08 PM

Yes higher then a B. He has been playing good this year and has career high across the board.

kia4ever 01-15-2010 04:09 PM

if we're going to take expectations into account then amir johnson is an A and so is Jarret Jack

jeffb 01-15-2010 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurk (Post 310882)
Yes higher then a B. He has been playing good this year and has career high across the board.

Which is why he isn't getting a C.

Gurk 01-15-2010 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 310886)
Which is why he isn't getting a C.

B means he is doing average.
C means below average. Since he is playing better then past seasons that means he is above average therefore causing his grade to be higher

jeffb 01-15-2010 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kia4ever (Post 310884)
if we're going to take expectations into account then amir johnson is an A and so is Jarret Jack

Jarrett Jack sucked big time the first month and was playing wayyyyyyyy below expectations. So saying he would deserve an A is ludacris, especially considering he was supposed to be better defensively then he's shown.

jeffb 01-15-2010 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurk (Post 310887)
B means he is doing average.
C means below average. Since he is playing better then past seasons that means he is above average therefore causing his grade to be higher

I'd say he's averaging where he should be. Which is not above expectations but where he should be. I expected 18/7 this season and he's slightly below that overall but close enough. The only person on this team that deserves more then a B is Bosh.

acopur 01-15-2010 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 310875)
Passing out of doubleteams... he found Bargs for that huge 3 didn't he? Still a work in progress but not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

Turns the ball over a lot? LMAO... look at the number of TO's he avgs on the season. Don't judge his overall performance based on TWO games. Jeez....


finding bargnani for a huge 3 doesnt change the truth that bosh sucks when it comes to find open teammates..i think this is his biggest gap on his game..

it is a mid season grading so as i said, in last 10 games he has become a TO machine, not overall..41 TO's in 10 games..i am not judging based on two games..it is not the worst performance, of course..

all other things are minor that decrease his grade from A+ to A-..

if i said bosh is so terrible at all those things like you've accused me to do, then i should give him a C..

i am just saying he has some minor lacks + one big problem IMO, so i gave him an A-..

soulstice99 01-15-2010 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmats7 (Post 310813)
D for complaining to the media. D for being out of shape. D for laughing after blowout losses. D for only being effective with the ball in his hands.

Nice post.

heDo ... a well deserved D.

And he's not that even effective with the ball in his hands.

Oh yeah, and for shoot-around with the opposing team on the other side of the floor. Pathetic.

osamu 01-16-2010 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henrymakepeace (Post 310598)
The team has a record below .500. Why so many Bs?

My grades:

MARCUS BANKS - C+
ANDREA Bargnani - C+
MARCO BELINELLI - C
CHRIS Bosh - A-
JOSE Calderon - C-
DEMAR DEROZAN - C
REGGIE EVANS - Inc
JARRETT JACK - B
AMIR JOHNSON - B-
RASHO NESTEROVIC - C
PATRICK O'BRYANT - Inc
HEDO TURKOGLU - C-
SONNY WEEMS - B
ANTOINE WRIGHT - C-
JAY TRIANO - C-

Bargs is by far the second best player on this team....C:confused2:


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