Mediocre Forever: Triano, What does this mean?
Old 05-12-2009, 11:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Well first off, congratulations to Triano on his deal!

So what does this mean for the raptors?

In a nut shell, nothing really. Coaching is perhaps the most over estimated aspect of basketball team performance in the league. In fact, for the most, there are really only a handful of coaches whose mere presence can add to the win column while the vast majority of head coaches out there are really only as good as their roster. Look no further than Mitchel, or Doc Rivers is perhaps an even better example. The year before he wins coach of the year, the celtics had what, an 18 loss streak and a record that rivaled the worst all time in NBA history. What did it take to win, a complete roster revamp. The same thing with Mitchel and the Raptors.

With the exception of george karl, jackson, sloan, jeff van gundy and carlisle, the rest of the coaching faculty are relatively mediocre, each with their own strengths and weaknesses but are made better by the right fit. Dantoni with a running team, mitchel with a younger team, jackson with managing star personalities and so on so forth. Its in fact extremely unfair to coaches that they carry the blame for underperforming teams but ironically, i think even the gm's know that its unfair, and in most cases, its simply to keep the fan base from rioting.

So why keep Triano rather than bringing in another mediocre or even a star coach. Well, no matter how a good a coach, you still need a talented roster. What I've seem to noticed is that the star coach is what helps push teams to title contention and as the raps are far from contending, its more crucial to change the roster now, and bring in the star coaches to help push us over the edge in a few years. Which also explains the length of his contract.

Other than that, there are really only two other reasons to keep him. The most important being that the players like him. What resonates with title contending teams? continuity and consistency. These need to start in the head office to spread down to the team and truly allow them to take steps. Every time something changes, you start again and the raps definitely don't need to take another step back. The last reason really is that he will be much more affordable as opposed to another mediocre coach which is extremely important with the roster makeover the Raptors need to make. In fact you'll probably se the raps make one big financial move while trading into the draft for low cost high potential roster picks to ease the burden should Bosh leave while maintaing a decent roster. With the resigning of delfino, parker and pops, a low budget sg signing and returning marion through bird rights is enough to take huge steps forward but we'll get into that more after the playoffs.

Here's to a denver cleveland final!
Source - Mediocre Forever - A Toronto Raptors Blog: Triano, What does this mean?
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Coaching is perhaps the most over estimated aspect of basketball team performance in the league.
And thats precisely the biggest problem with the NBA.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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the right fit for sam mitchell is a young team?
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I think coaching means a hell of alot more then this guy thinks. But at the same time without talent it's difficult. Then again the measure of a coach imo is really seen when he has a talented roster. Knowing how to manage ego's and distributing minutes is a huge balancing act and only a few can do this extremely well.
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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He should have put in Adelman and Larry Brown instead of Carlisle.
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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And thats precisely the biggest problem with the NBA.
agreed and also triano i dont believe could make the Raptors in any way...doesnt hurt Raptors but doesnt make them better in anyway so the source is right we gained.....NOTHING!
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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the right fit for sam mitchell is a young team?
no, a team that is expected to be bad - that way he will seem like a decent coach if he gets them to 33 wins (his career average) ...
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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no, a team that is expected to be bad - that way he will seem like a decent coach if he gets them to 33 wins (his career average) ...
His teams were expected to be worse. Starting lineups with guys like Bosh, James, Araujo, Bonner, Alston, Rose at the end of his career, Loren Woods

When he actually had some talent, his teams averaged 44 wins
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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he has carlisle, karl but no popovich?? ummm ok
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I disagree that coaching is over-estimated in regard to performance. It is very important in that respect. In terms of winning games, particularly outside of the playoffs, it's almost entirely in the players' hands, and I think it should be. It's up to the coach and the GM to make a team, and then it's up to that team to deliver. When games become all about coaching, then I find there is a lot taken out of the game. Players need to be able to think for themselves and play for themselves, and the coaches and GM should provide the foundation upon which all their abilities work for each other so that they can use them in a free manner.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
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His teams were expected to be worse. Starting lineups with guys like Bosh, James, Araujo, Bonner, Alston, Rose at the end of his career, Loren Woods

When he actually had some talent, his teams averaged 44 wins
he had the same talent the next year and he didn't win as many games ....
but my point is that sam wins by willing his players to play hard - not by actually coaching them. This type of coach can only win so much, because when you start playing the good teams, those already tend to play hard, so you kind of need to counter what they do at a coaching level.


that's why even when we've won 47 games, we failed miserably against a mediocre NJ team.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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he had the same talent the next year and he didn't win as many games ....
but my point is that sam wins by willing his players to play hard - not by actually coaching them. This type of coach can only win so much, because when you start playing the good teams, those already tend to play hard, so you kind of need to counter what they do at a coaching level.


that's why even when we've won 47 games, we failed miserably against a mediocre NJ team.
Wow that makes no sense. The good teams have better talent and experience do they not? That could be one reason they win more.

How exactly did Sam will his players to play hard and what difference would that make if he couldn't get them to play well?

And NJ was that much more mediocre than Toronto? Why? Because Toronto tended to play hard already? And Toronto failed miserably? They were missing two key pieces, had two injured pg's and still were one bad pass away from going to a 7th game. Oh and those two key pieces were missing by and large the next season where you suggest the same talent existed.

The dude coached. Your idol BC said as much and still does. Twisting your reasoning to this extent to try to prove otherwise is nutty at this point.
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:06 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Leadership aspect of coaching is very important but drawing plays is not so much. You need to have a goal and a leader who believes in that goal. Team will gather around him then.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:29 AM   #14 (permalink)
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there is no right fit for sam mitchell
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Wow that makes no sense. The good teams have better talent and experience do they not? That could be one reason they win more.

How exactly did Sam will his players to play hard and what difference would that make if he couldn't get them to play well?

And NJ was that much more mediocre than Toronto? Why? Because Toronto tended to play hard already? And Toronto failed miserably? They were missing two key pieces, had two injured pg's and still were one bad pass away from going to a 7th game. Oh and those two key pieces were missing by and large the next season where you suggest the same talent existed.

The dude coached. Your idol BC said as much and still does. Twisting your reasoning to this extent to try to prove otherwise is nutty at this point.
sam is a motivator, he holds everybody in line for the most part. Just by playing hard, a team can have some success. However, good teams play hard most of the time too, so this advantage is mostly visible against weak teams. If you remember that season with 47 wins, our record against winning teams wasn't all that great. Furthermore, in the playoffs, coaching becomes much more important, since most players will play hard anyway.

In short, the biggest impact Sam is in getting players to play hard all the time.

NJ was the typical example of a team that doesn't play hard consistently. But in the playoffs, things were different, their intensity was different, and they managed to shut down Bosh and Sam didn't have an answer for that (despite being a very obvious tactic). Last year against Orlando, Sam decided to experiment with a line that was almost never used in an official game that year - that's plain dumb.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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he had the same talent the next year and he didn't win as many games ....
but my point is that sam wins by willing his players to play hard - not by actually coaching them. This type of coach can only win so much, because when you start playing the good teams, those already tend to play hard, so you kind of need to counter what they do at a coaching level.


that's why even when we've won 47 games, we failed miserably against a mediocre NJ team.

That's a little oversimplified. Yes, getting his players to hustle was his strong suit the guy has the makings to be a good coach...with some more experience and seasoning. He knows more about the game than people give him credit for...albeit not on a level as many of the coaches listed in this thread..and to his defense most of them have been coaching for far longer. You have to start somewhere and he did well with what he had. He's not yet ready to be a next level type of coach, championship calibre but that doens't mean he's not a good coach and will never get there.
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