Masai Ujiri (Denver Nuggets GM) vs. Bryan Colangelo - Page 2

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View Poll Results: who's a better GM, Ujiri or Colangelo?
Ujiri 20 62.50%
Colangelo 12 37.50%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-16-2012, 07:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by finstock View Post
Ujiri is winning the SF acquisition battle so far.
Bc landed us shawn marion at the wrong time. does that help even the odds?
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:28 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Honestly.... I would look at Steve Kerr.

I was VERY impressed with what he was able to do in such a short time in PHX. The bench players that he brought in to compliment Nash and Amare were a perfect fit and although he DID fail inititally with the Shaq experiment, he acknowledged that failure quickly and moved to rectify it in short order.

He seems like he knows what it takes to build a winner.
Please..

A GM who makes mistakes, but can correct them cuz he wants to build a winner? Sounds like BC to me.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Ujiri got a waaaayy better haul for his disgruntled franchise player than BC did.
Except Carmelo was under contract, not a fa like Bosh ... And frankly, that haul looked very impressive at the time, but it doesn't really seem to be paying out for them. Chandler and mozgov are barely playing and gallinari has gotten worse every year and at 12 million, he's not exactly cheap. Plus they committed a ton of cash to McGee who may end up biting them in the ass soon.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Bc landed us shawn marion at the wrong time. does that help even the odds?
He got us Marion at exactly the right time. He was great for us here and played well with Bosh and Bargs. BC's mistake was letting him go.

*cue Marion wouldn't have stayed anyway argument*

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Please..

A GM who makes mistakes, but can correct them cuz he wants to build a winner? Sounds like BC to me.
Except that Kerr corrected his mistakes in ONE season.... and then had his team in the WC finals the next.... while we've been waiting for BC to build a winner for what? 7 years now?
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:35 PM   #25 (permalink)
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He got us Marion at exactly the right time. He was great for us here and played well with Bosh and Bargs. BC's mistake was letting him go.

*cue Marion wouldn't have stayed anyway argument*



Except that Kerr corrected his mistakes in ONE season.... and then had his team in the WC finals the next.... while we've been waiting for BC to build a winner for what? 7 years now?
his team?? You mean BC's team, the only meaningful contribution he made to that team was trading for shaq which you admit it was a mistake. All the other key players on that team were signed by BC ...
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:51 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Honestly.... I would look at Steve Kerr.
I wasn't a big fan of him but if the Raptors were to go in a different direction from Colangelo,it could work. The expectations were high in Phoneix for him,almost a now or never situation.

I like the idea of former players becoming GM's,and not necessarily superstars.
It may come off as an idea for shits and giggles but Charles Barkley would be interesting. He knows the game,would have pull with players and he loves Toronto. Make him president and GM
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:00 PM   #27 (permalink)
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his team?? You mean BC's team, the only meaningful contribution he made to that team was trading for shaq which you admit it was a mistake. All the other key players on that team were signed by BC ...
You are incorrect sir.

- Dragic and Robin Lopez were both drafted by Kerr in 2008.

- Raja Bell and Boris Diaw were shipped out for J-Rich and Jared Dudley.

- re-upped Nash and signed Grant Hill and Channing Frye as well.

- hired Alvin Gentry.


ALL of that was done by Kerr.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:25 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Let's wait 10yrs when he's had time to fuck up and draft busts. We're talking about a rookie GM that has been given a talented playoff team, a HOF coach, a superstar to deal.
Actually its fair to assess and compare them in the last 2 years,Colangelo realistically has more of an advantage since he's been around longer but we can ignore his distant past.

Colangelo had an equal opportunity to build a playoff team. He was given an eventual head coach of the year who won the award in BC's first season. He then fired that coach because he didn't compliment his 1st overall pick(which was also given to him in his first full year) Andre Bargnani, who he took over Rudy Gay(the same player the Raptors fanbase is thirsting over currently). Ujiri is NOT a rookie,he's in his 3rd season and the make up of the team he has now from when he took over is very different but still considered to be a playoff contender because of HIS transactions. BC is stubborn at times,and this has cost the Raptors. He was warned about Bosh leaving but wanted him for a playoff push(8th place) that wouldn't go deep. BC dropped the ball there! They both had assets but Ujiri has been better at maintaing value for those assets and I give him the edge because he understands that some times you have to cut your losses and move on.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:16 AM   #29 (permalink)
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You are incorrect sir.

- Dragic and Robin Lopez were both drafted by Kerr in 2008.

- Raja Bell and Boris Diaw were shipped out for J-Rich and Jared Dudley.

- re-upped Nash and signed Grant Hill and Channing Frye as well.

- hired Alvin Gentry.


ALL of that was done by Kerr.
Nice try, except they made it to the conference finals in 2007 ...
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:28 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Nice try, except they made it to the conference finals in 2007 ...
I'll correct you before TO Rap comes in here and makes you look stupid....they last made it to the Western Conference Finals in 2009/2010...and Kerr was the GM

Last edited by MBailey85; 11-17-2012 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:47 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Correct me if I'm wrong-- but doesn't Denver spend a Hell of a lot more money on Basketball operations then Toronto does?

A sample would be the cutting edge training program. Whenever I get a glimps into The Raptors work outs and training, they tend to just shoot jumpers and run base-line sprints.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:33 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Except that Kerr corrected his mistakes in ONE season.... and then had his team in the WC finals the next.... while we've been waiting for BC to build a winner for what? 7 years now?
I already agreed that Kerr is worth considering. I also liked some of the moves he made.

But I really don't like the way you're making the argument here about him correcting mistakes quicker and turning the team back into a conference finalist a year later.

He had Nash. It's much easier to play musical chairs with the roster and still win, when you have a guy like Nash. If Nash was in Toronto, BC likely could have done something similar.

I think Kerr is at least as good an option as BC though. Overall, Kerr's moves were positive.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:28 AM   #33 (permalink)
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kerr would be nice but i'm not sure if he is better than bc,

remember bc is the one who built the suns, and when they were at there best it was bc built rosters not kerr built rosters

its easy to tweak when its already built, the hard part is becoming a winner, Raptors should be 4-4 but our team is young and learning how to win

but being a loyalist of bc, even i csan't defend him anymore, and his no 1 pick well i think hell would freeze over before he starts caring about anything, i thought italians were known for emotion
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:59 PM   #34 (permalink)
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It's close. BC is horrible in FA. Is ok in the draft and can make some nifty deals here and there. Masai took over a playoff team but has done well thus far. I gave the slight edge to BC because of the type of team he took over.
is BC really that horrible in FA or is the city of Toronto (i.e. not USA) horrible in FA
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:09 PM   #35 (permalink)
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is BC really that horrible in FA or is the city of Toronto (i.e. not USA) horrible in FA
The whole nobody wants to play in TO thing is bogus. If people don't want to come here its because the team is losing and known as a dead end,unless you begin your career here or can't get a job anywhere else. The Raptors don't have much history of success and there's no sense of pride playing for this club. Pro Athletes(a majority) like TO and Canada but they want to play for a winner too.

BC has been horrible in FA,not by pursuit but rather by judgment of players. He's done the best he could so I can't knock him for trying,working with what he gots but unfortunately it hasn't been enough. This is why in the Raptors case its critical that they get every draft pick right because that's the way they're gonna have to build a winner. No time to pass up on top 3-5 talent or physical specimen because of their supposed mental make up.
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:11 PM   #36 (permalink)
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is BC really that horrible in FA or is the city of Toronto (i.e. not USA) horrible in FA
Kapono was signed for 6 million/yr for 4 years. He only had one key ability which was 3 pt shooting. Instead of addressing one of the team's weaknesses, he just added to one of its only key strengths for a guy who, let's be honest got a lot of open 3s playing with Shaq and Wade.

Hedo. Yes, he played well with Orlando (especiially in the playoffs).
However, he wasn't young and clearly, his strengths were highlighted in Orlando and his weaknesses were hidden there. He had DH12 hide his d and he played to his strengths playing with a non-traditional pg there. Here he did not have the safety knowing he had DH12 to hide his d. He also would have to play with Jose (which doesn't work well).

Kleiza - probably the best thing he's ever done in FA. Not a horrible deal. A low-riskish signing after Kleiza's performance in the world championship.

Fields. Thankfully he was injured (ie. some explanation to his play). He was signed as a byproduct of attempting to sign a 38 year old PG (and preventing the Knicks from signing that PG) who clearly did not fit with the culture change that this team is trying to impose.
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:16 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Correct me if I'm wrong-- but doesn't Denver spend a Hell of a lot more money on Basketball operations then Toronto does?

A sample would be the cutting edge training program. Whenever I get a glimps into The Raptors work outs and training, they tend to just shoot jumpers and run base-line sprints.
Good question and observation about the practice...I don't have the answer though. It just comes down to decision making and timing,just like everything else.
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:43 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Kapono was signed for 6 million/yr for 4 years. He only had one key ability which was 3 pt shooting. Instead of addressing one of the team's weaknesses, he just added to one of its only key strengths for a guy who, let's be honest got a lot of open 3s playing with Shaq and Wade.

Hedo. Yes, he played well with Orlando (especiially in the playoffs).
However, he wasn't young and clearly, his strengths were highlighted in Orlando and his weaknesses were hidden there. He had DH12 hide his d and he played to his strengths playing with a non-traditional pg there. Here he did not have the safety knowing he had DH12 to hide his d. He also would have to play with Jose (which doesn't work well).

Kleiza - probably the best thing he's ever done in FA. Not a horrible deal. A low-riskish signing after Kleiza's performance in the world championship.

Fields. Thankfully he was injured (ie. some explanation to his play). He was signed as a byproduct of attempting to sign a 38 year old PG (and preventing the Knicks from signing that PG) who clearly did not fit with the culture change that this team is trying to impose.
That's just talking about who BC's been able to sign, its the non-interest of Americans to come to Canada that makes BC have to overpay to even get any of the above to come let alone try and lure a star player here
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:45 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Jason Kapono contract looking back on it, smh, Hedo, offtopic Sam mitchell thinking he has the twin towers SMHHHH
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:51 PM   #40 (permalink)
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That's just talking about who BC's been able to sign, its the non-interest of Americans to come to Canada that makes BC have to overpay to even get any of the above to come let alone try and lure a star player here
You don't think that's important? aka what he's done in FA. Luring a superstar is no easy task. Having the capspace to sign a superstar or even a starter is no easy task either. BC loves to create the illusion of having significant capspace.

It is a negative but some places will always be enticing - NY, LA, Miami. FA shouldn't be the #1 option of acquiring talent either way. Asset management is an important thing.
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