Marc Stein: Lakers Receive Gasol Inquiries From Raptors, Wolves - Page 9
Old 12-13-2012, 12:29 PM   #161 (permalink)
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So either Magic truly believes this or this is for trade value purposes.....


LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Magic Johnson questioned new coach Mike D'Antoni's system with the slumping Los Angeles Lakers, saying "it doesn't fit the talent the Lakers have."

The Lakers (9-12) were 4-7 in 11 games since D'Antoni took over from the fired Mike Brown going into the opener of a four-game trip on Tuesday night in Cleveland.

"I'm not down on him yet as a coach," Johnson said earlier in the day at a Dodger Stadium appearance, although he criticized D'Antoni's plan to make the Lakers into a running team.

"You can't run with these guys," he said. "There's one guy who can get up and down the court and that's Kobe (Bryant). You've got to take that ball inside. That's how you win games."

Johnson said the Lakers have two of the best 7-footers in the NBA in Pau Gasol and Dwight Howard, and the offense should revolve around Gasol, who missed his fifth straight game Tuesday night with tendinitis in his knees. Point guard Steve Nash has missed 20 games with a broken left leg he sustained on Oct. 31.

Johnson called Gasol "the best passing big man in the NBA."

"His game is catch it on the low block and face his man," the former Lakers star said. "The first question should've been, `Where do you like it because that's where I'm going to give it to you."'

When it comes to the Lakers' dismal defense, Johnson agrees with D'Antoni and Bryant.

"We can score points but the defense is breaking down," he said. "We have to correct our defense. Every night guys have to come with passion and urgency."

Johnson said he thinks that once Gasol starts playing well, the Lakers will follow suit with Nash's help.
Healthy Pau is a better offensive player than Dwight.
But it just won't happen. Pau's a good soldier, Bynum and now Dwight have huge egos, so Pau's the natural choice to sacrifice. D'Antoni system pushes that sacrifice beyond reasonable limits, though.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:33 PM   #162 (permalink)
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Dude, do you remember Bonner here? Offensively he's a lot worse than AB.... except at threes. Just stop. it's trolling, you've been doing so well too, it's not a good look. You know this, I know this, it was a troll comment.

As for whether he'd get time there, year he would. Heck, Splitter looked atrocious last year, this year he gets so much time. How a guy fits is paramount and we have nothing that fits... even Lowry isn't fitting here. There is something seriously wrong with the culture here. Coaching, management, basic philosophies... it's just wrong. We're pushing non-stars as stars rather than focusing on really upgrading talent. And chasing a glue guy as the be all end all just takes the case.... Gross.

I'm so fed up. Not since Vince's days... AAron and Eric Williams, what a joke.
Can you explain to me why I should think that Bargs is any better than Channing Frye or Bonner?

Not talking about "potential"... not talking about "skillset"... I mean actually watching the games and judging his performance beyond his atrocious volume shooting.

WHAT makes this guy better than Bonner? The fact that he can create his own shot once in a while?
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:49 PM   #163 (permalink)
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Bargnani would find himself in and out of the Spurs' regular rotation just as much as Bonner
-

assuming of course that Bargnani wouldn't just give up completely the first time he gets a few DNP-CDs.

Personally; I had more fun cheering for Bonner. Bargnani is clearly the more talented player.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:52 PM   #164 (permalink)
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He's one-dimensional, and that one dimension can't even be relied on. He misses a ton of open shots, whether he creates them or not. He really needs to be able to create something for others to look at all worthwhile. Or he could play fully engaged on both ends like he did for 13 games. The fact that he tends to do it for about 13 games or less just makes him a drag on his team. And largely very inefficient.
I disagree, he's very versatile, the problem with him was always focus and intensity, not skill. At various times in his career he's shown he can be an excellent post defender, average defensive rebounder (he had seasons with 5+ defensive rebounds per game which is about average for a PF/C), he can create his own shot from the mid/low post, he can be deadly on P&R and he's a good, although very streaky 3pt shooter. And he can block some shots too. The only things he can't do (and he really, really sucks at them) is P&R defense, help defense and proper rotation and offensive rebounding.

The problem this year, besides the drop in his intensity, is that he's badly misutilized. On D, he's being asked to chase pg on the perimeter and he just sucks at that. The theory was that it will keep him engaged like that, but it doesn't appear to be working. Now he's constantly out of position and not only he's almost useless at trapping, but he's always far from the basket which affects his defensive rebounding and shot blocking (while giving him a minor bonus in steals)

Offensively, he's back to his rookie years, hovering on the perimeter and rarely getting to his sweep spots on offense. Not sure if that's his choice or casey's, but it's not working either. May be beneficial for demar/lowry, which was the theory I heard, but it's definitely bad for him.

Now, it's conceivable, maybe not very likely, but conceivable, that in the right system, with the right coach and a proper role, he may thrive. Keep him closer to the basket at both ends, teach him some basic rules for when to help and when to stick (it can't be that hard to grasp that - it's not rocket science) and light a fire under his ass. A guy like SVG, Riley or Phil Jackson would be ideal - somebody with authority and strong will.

To say he's not a good player it's just not true. He may play badly now, but he is still only 27 and maybe a change of scenery would revive his career. The problem is that everybody knows we want to get rid of him and the offers we're getting are probably pathetic right now. Our best chance is for the Lakers to keep struggle even when Nash returns, they will be forced to make a move then. We don't need gasol, but a 3-team trade could net us some nice assets in return.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:56 PM   #165 (permalink)
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Can you explain to me why I should think that Bargs is any better than Channing Frye or Bonner?

Not talking about "potential"... not talking about "skillset"... I mean actually watching the games and judging his performance beyond his atrocious volume shooting.

WHAT makes this guy better than Bonner? The fact that he can create his own shot once in a while?
those two guys, bonner in particular, are 3-pt specialists who clearly defined roles who could never hope to stray from their roles. Bargnani is bigger, stronger, much better ball handler, quicker than bonner and a much better post player than either. And he's a better individual defender than both.

I agree that under a strong coach like pop, he'll either play the right away, or find himself out the door in a hurry. I just disagree it's a foregone conclusion the latter will happen. He's skilled enough and obedient enough that he may just learn to play properly there.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:45 PM   #166 (permalink)
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Bargnani has a versatile offensive skillset which he has not been able to apply consistently to the NBA.

Some guys have versatile skillsets that they aren't able to apply consistently at the college level.

What good is versatility when you suck?
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:46 PM   #167 (permalink)
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What good is versatility when you suck?
glue guy!
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:52 PM   #168 (permalink)
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Bargnani has a versatile offensive skillset which he has not been able to apply consistently to the NBA.

Some guys have versatile skillsets that they aren't able to apply consistently at the college level.

What good is versatility when you suck?
well, for one thing it beats lack of talent ... One if fixable, however difficult, the other is not ...You can at least gamble that Bargnani will perform at a high level, a desperate team might entertain the thought. Bonner or frye on the other hand, there's no chance your team will improve with them ...
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:02 PM   #169 (permalink)
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well, for one thing it beats lack of talent ... One if fixable, however difficult, the other is not ...You can at least gamble that Bargnani will perform at a high level, a desperate team might entertain the thought. Bonner or frye on the other hand, there's no chance your team will improve with them ...
False.

Think that the Knicks haven't been benefitting from Novak's contributions?

He's another player who fits that mold... except unlike Bargs he actually does his job WELL and helps his team.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:04 PM   #170 (permalink)
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well, for one thing it beats lack of talent ... One if fixable, however difficult, the other is not ...You can at least gamble that Bargnani will perform at a high level, a desperate team might entertain the thought. Bonner or frye on the other hand, there's no chance your team will improve with them ...
One is dependable, the other is not.

It beats lack of talent....like 4-20 beats a lack of talent. I'm confused. What has Bargnani's versatility beaten exactly?
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:10 PM   #171 (permalink)
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False.

Think that the Knicks haven't been benefitting from Novak's contributions?

He's another player who fits that mold... except unlike Bargs he actually does his job WELL and helps his team.
sure it benefits, most players benefit their teams. Would you take nowak over amare though? Would the lakers consider trading gasol for bonner to improve their team? Bonner, Nowak, Frye are guys you pick up to fill your team, deep rotation players who will give you a boost. They're not guys you rely on to do the heavy lifting. As bad as amare has been, no one in their right mind would take bonner over him. I'm only giving the amare example because you seem blinded when Bargnani names come up ...
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:12 PM   #172 (permalink)
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One is dependable, the other is not.

It beats lack of talent....like 4-20 beats a lack of talent. I'm confused. What has Bargnani's versatility beaten exactly?
really? So if given a choice, who would you want from Minesotta, Williams (more talent, but very inconsistent and potentially a major bust), or Steitsma (limited talent, but gives you a consistent skill -shot blocking)?
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:12 PM   #173 (permalink)
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Their are some incredibly talented players who don't sniff the NBA.

The real talented players in the NBA, the guys like LeBron etc. who are winning basketball games. The "cream of the crop". They share far more in common with a player like Bonner then they do Bargnani.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:14 PM   #174 (permalink)
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I havn't watched enough of Williams. I don't have TWolve fever.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:39 PM   #175 (permalink)
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sure it benefits, most players benefit their teams. Would you take nowak over amare though? Would the lakers consider trading gasol for bonner to improve their team? Bonner, Nowak, Frye are guys you pick up to fill your team, deep rotation players who will give you a boost. They're not guys you rely on to do the heavy lifting. As bad as amare has been, no one in their right mind would take bonner over him. I'm only giving the amare example because you seem blinded when Bargnani names come up ...
And Bargs fits in with this group FAR more than he does with Amare.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:23 PM   #176 (permalink)
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That was exactly my point. Relying on a player that frequently shows nothing will kill any team. Defining roles in relation to that player will be a disaster.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:04 PM   #177 (permalink)
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And Bargs fits in with this group FAR more than he does with Amare.

I guess there's not much to say to that

Makes you wonder why would anybody try to deal for Bargnani in the first place, after all, the guy is paid a very large salary compared to nowak, bonner or frye.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:09 PM   #178 (permalink)
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That was exactly my point. Relying on a player that frequently shows nothing will kill any team. Defining roles in relation to that player will be a disaster.
true enough, but I bet all the other teams trying to deal for andrea are hoping he will show up enough nights to make it worthwhile. Just look at the trade proposal thread, and you will see how many fans here are asking for all sorts of players who failed pretty much everywhere else and yet they want them here: courtney lee, jeff green, okafor, dalembert and so on.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:13 PM   #179 (permalink)
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I guess there's not much to say to that

Makes you wonder why would anybody try to deal for Bargnani in the first place, after all, the guy is paid a very large salary compared to nowak, bonner or frye.
Because on a decent team... with the right players surrounding him... where he's not asked to do too much... he could be good.

A 7fter who can stretch the floor the way he can is still quite rare.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:15 PM   #180 (permalink)
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Because on a decent team... with the right players surrounding him... where he's not asked to do too much... he could be good.

A 7fter who can stretch the floor the way he can is still quite rare.
I don't think many GMs trade for 10 million a year players and then have them in roles where they're not asked to do too much ...
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