Marc Stein: Lakers Receive Gasol Inquiries From Raptors, Wolves - Page 8
Old 12-08-2012, 09:08 PM   #141 (permalink)
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O yes you are right. If JV will be sold it will happens. But according you name you will go out if Bargnani go out
Nope, If Barny go's to Los Angeles I'm sure I'll keep tabs on him (for fantasy purposes hehe), but at the end of the day my loyalties are with the Toronto Raptors come hell or high water. (Credit Casey with the quote

As for my name, Im pretty sure I chose it after our third game of the season (last year)when I thought Bargs was playing like an allstar, seemed appropriate at the time.

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Old 12-08-2012, 09:33 PM   #142 (permalink)
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I find it hard to see Bargnani as either a great offensive player, or anything but an inefficient scorer. He is at just a smidgeon over 1 point per shot, just ahead of Alan Anderson in that category. Any player that goes 0-7 and 0-6 on 3 pointers so readily, on open looks, is lacking anything close to greatness or efficiency.

He can look great and extremely efficient when he gets on a roll. The question is how do you build a team that can accommodate him until he gets on a roll? You end up having to build two teams, one that works with hot Bargnani, and one that can cope with a cold Bargnani. And as we've seen, such a split personality for a team doesn't do wonders for anyone involved. It happens with any team relying on the classic inefficient scorer.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:00 PM   #143 (permalink)
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I find it hard to see Bargnani as either a great offensive player, or anything but an inefficient scorer. He is at just a smidgeon over 1 point per shot, just ahead of Alan Anderson in that category. Any player that goes 0-7 and 0-6 on 3 pointers so readily, on open looks, is lacking anything close to greatness or efficiency.

He can look great and extremely efficient when he gets on a roll. The question is how do you build a team that can accommodate him until he gets on a roll? You end up having to build two teams, one that works with hot Bargnani, and one that can cope with a cold Bargnani. And as we've seen, such a split personality for a team doesn't do wonders for anyone involved. It happens with any team relying on the classic inefficient scorer.
That's why if he ever WAS on a good team he'd probably be playing a role similar to Matt Bonner in SA.... or if he's REALLY hot, Novak in NYK.

10-15 min/gm... and if he's not hitting he's not playing.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:05 PM   #144 (permalink)
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Pretty quiet last night you were. Lowry must have struggled.
Oh he did struggle... no question. Did you think I wouldn't admit that?

Difference is he's given this squad about 1000 x more so far than Bargs has.

Bargs had what? 12 games last year when he was a solid 20-pt scorer?

Lowry's avging close to that (while dealing with an injury) AND grabbing boards AND dishing out assists.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:35 PM   #145 (permalink)
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You be trolling now Toraps. 13 games. You know it was 13 games.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:40 PM   #146 (permalink)
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You be trolling now Toraps. 13 games. You know it was 13 games.
The matt bonner comment was trolling.

This is such a tiring conversation... trade AB already so we can complain about somebody else being the reason that we're still sucking.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:58 PM   #147 (permalink)
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You be trolling now Toraps. 13 games. You know it was 13 games.
Shit. You got me.

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The matt bonner comment was trolling.

This is such a tiring conversation... trade AB already so we can complain about somebody else being the reason that we're still sucking.
Not really.

Do you honestly think that Bargs would even get off the Spurs' bench if he played the way that he's been playing this season?

Bonner may not have been the most skilled or athletic player ever... but at least he TRIES... and is consistent with his strength (shooting).
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:38 AM   #148 (permalink)
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Toronto: Williams, Pekovic
Minnesota: JV
It will better for everybody. Toronto will get Williams and Center and they will be nice with Derozan and Bargn and Minesota will get center who will be a superstar with Rubio.
It makes little sense for the Wolves, they are clearly in win-now mode. Pekovic right now is much better than Valanciunas.

The only problem is that Pekovic isn't a good fit for their system (neither is Valanciunas).

Adelman's system would benefit much more from a Sabonis / Brad Miller / Vlade Divac / Duncan / Garnett / Noah "passer who can knock a jumper" type.
Therefore the Pau talks.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:27 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Shit. You got me.



Not really.

Do you honestly think that Bargs would even get off the Spurs' bench if he played the way that he's been playing this season?

Bonner may not have been the most skilled or athletic player ever... but at least he TRIES... and is consistent with his strength (shooting).
Dude, do you remember Bonner here? Offensively he's a lot worse than AB.... except at threes. Just stop. it's trolling, you've been doing so well too, it's not a good look. You know this, I know this, it was a troll comment.

As for whether he'd get time there, year he would. Heck, Splitter looked atrocious last year, this year he gets so much time. How a guy fits is paramount and we have nothing that fits... even Lowry isn't fitting here. There is something seriously wrong with the culture here. Coaching, management, basic philosophies... it's just wrong. We're pushing non-stars as stars rather than focusing on really upgrading talent. And chasing a glue guy as the be all end all just takes the case.... Gross.

I'm so fed up. Not since Vince's days... AAron and Eric Williams, what a joke.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:40 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Nope, If Barny go's to Los Angeles I'm sure I'll keep tabs on him (for fantasy purposes hehe), but at the end of the day my loyalties are with the Toronto Raptors come hell or high water. (Credit Casey with the quote

As for my name, Im pretty sure I chose it after our third game of the season (last year)when I thought Bargs was playing like an allstar, seemed appropriate at the time.
will you change it if/when Bargs goes?
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:54 PM   #151 (permalink)
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will you change it if/when Bargs goes?
It's just a name
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:54 PM   #152 (permalink)
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So why do we want Pau and his contract again?

Why are we giving up Bargs and Calderon for him?

I've been one of Bargs' biggest hater recently because he's been a waste of space on the floor. Don't give me that floor spreading crap. I still however know he can tear it up at any time and get into a zone on both ends. He can be much better than Gasol.

Calderon is a great floor leader off the bench, probably our best bench player. He's huge in the locker room and miles ahead of scrubs like Duhon or Morris. He's great insurance if Lowry goes all out and hurts himself once again. Not too mention he has a very valuable expiring contract.

Why do we want a guy who is owed fuckin' TWENTY MILLION each of the next two seasons and who is also playing his softest basketball ever, most probably because of his horrible knees. The guy is skilled without question, was one of the best....but we're looking to win NOW. He's not even close to 100%. He can only help Jonas so much, I don't think it's worth it at all, it should be mostly about on-court production from him, and I don't see him giving us that much more if at all. Who knows if he can go back to his championship form.


And trust me, I want Bargnani outta here more than anyone right now.
20 mil or not, that doesn't matter, since the Raptors aren't going to be free agency players either way this summer. At least Gasol expires in 2014, a year earlier than Bargnani. That's also the summer when there's Gay, Granger, Deng, Iguodala, etc available. There are some better pieces available that summer too, but a vet all star level wing wouldn't be a bad consolation prize either.

And he does help you win now. The guy is being asked to run and gun in LA. The results are corresponding.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:30 PM   #153 (permalink)
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20 mil or not, that doesn't matter, since the Raptors aren't going to be free agency players either way this summer. At least Gasol expires in 2014, a year earlier than Bargnani. That's also the summer when there's Gay, Granger, Deng, Iguodala, etc available. There are some better pieces available that summer too, but a vet all star level wing wouldn't be a bad consolation prize either.

And he does help you win now. The guy is being asked to run and gun in LA. The results are corresponding.
Sorry but these 'solutions' are exactly why the Raps are stuck in perpetual mediocrity. 'there's Gay, Granger, Deng, Iguodala, etc available' - please give me some credible reasons why any of those vets in their prime, or near the end of it, would want to sign with the laughing stock of the league? A team that would send their chances for a championships to 0 imo - now and in 2014. The Raps will gut their team and then in 2014 when no one signs here the team will do what they always do, sign average players and put the spin in the media that it's team ball.

The Raps are now the Vancouver Grizzlies of the league. Didn't I read somewhere that Big Country wanted to play again......

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Old 12-09-2012, 01:38 PM   #154 (permalink)
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You be trolling now Toraps. 13 games. You know it was 13 games.
Lucky #13
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:05 PM   #155 (permalink)
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Sorry but these 'solutions' are exactly why the Raps are stuck in perpetual mediocrity. 'there's Gay, Granger, Deng, Iguodala, etc available' - please give me some credible reasons why any of those vets in their prime, or near the end of it, would want to sign with the laughing stock of the league? A team that would send their chances for a championships to 0 imo - now and in 2014. The Raps will gut their team and then in 2014 when no one signs here the team will do what they always do, sign average players and put the spin in the media that it's team ball.

The Raps are now the Vancouver Grizzlies of the league. Didn't I read somewhere that Big Country wanted to play again......

I don't see the downside.

Option A: let Calderon expire and stay 'competitive' this year with Calderon and Bargnani. Lowry will probably get healthier, the team will stop losing so many close games, but so what? the playoffs are unlikely, the pick is unlikely..

Option B: cut the cord. Blow it up. The pick is probably gone for this year, so might as well be respectable. And clear cap space for 2014 in the process.
If Pau's healthy --> the Raptors at least finish the season in a more respectable way. Pau's not healthy --> easy to tank and maybe the Raptors keep their pick.

I don't see what's the "solution" out of perpetual mediocrity that you are talking about.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:30 PM   #156 (permalink)
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So either Magic truly believes this or this is for trade value purposes.....


LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Magic Johnson questioned new coach Mike D'Antoni's system with the slumping Los Angeles Lakers, saying "it doesn't fit the talent the Lakers have."

The Lakers (9-12) were 4-7 in 11 games since D'Antoni took over from the fired Mike Brown going into the opener of a four-game trip on Tuesday night in Cleveland.

"I'm not down on him yet as a coach," Johnson said earlier in the day at a Dodger Stadium appearance, although he criticized D'Antoni's plan to make the Lakers into a running team.

"You can't run with these guys," he said. "There's one guy who can get up and down the court and that's Kobe (Bryant). You've got to take that ball inside. That's how you win games."

Johnson said the Lakers have two of the best 7-footers in the NBA in Pau Gasol and Dwight Howard, and the offense should revolve around Gasol, who missed his fifth straight game Tuesday night with tendinitis in his knees. Point guard Steve Nash has missed 20 games with a broken left leg he sustained on Oct. 31.

Johnson called Gasol "the best passing big man in the NBA."

"His game is catch it on the low block and face his man," the former Lakers star said. "The first question should've been, `Where do you like it because that's where I'm going to give it to you."'

When it comes to the Lakers' dismal defense, Johnson agrees with D'Antoni and Bryant.

"We can score points but the defense is breaking down," he said. "We have to correct our defense. Every night guys have to come with passion and urgency."

Johnson said he thinks that once Gasol starts playing well, the Lakers will follow suit with Nash's help.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:57 PM   #157 (permalink)
and that's the bottom line, cause JV said so!!!

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I follow Magic on Twitter, and I love the guy as a player and humanatarin, but some of the things he says about basketball? Oi..
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:35 PM   #158 (permalink)
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i think magic is thinking how the spurs play offensively, which wouldn't make you think oi. it'd make you think about how the floor would open up offensively for both kobe and dwight. d'antoni is the wrong coach for that, thou.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:43 PM   #159 (permalink)
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I find it hard to see Bargnani as either a great offensive player, or anything but an inefficient scorer. He is at just a smidgeon over 1 point per shot, just ahead of Alan Anderson in that category. Any player that goes 0-7 and 0-6 on 3 pointers so readily, on open looks, is lacking anything close to greatness or efficiency.
come on, you can't make that comparison, because not all points are created equal. It's like saying chandler is the best shooter in the league because he's shooting 70% from the field.

Bargnani has to create most of his shots, and often he has to do it late in the clock and 25 ft from the basket. It's debatable whether he spends so much time there by design or poor judgement, his coach maintains he values him for his floor spacing and we know that in the past he played much close to the basket with significantly better results.

The most valuable skill in the league, by far (imo), is shot creating ability. Extremely few players have the skill to create GOOD shots for them or for others, and a fairly small number have any shot creating skill at all. Probably 75-80% of all playes are helpless to generate any kind of offense on their own. Those players have to rely on others or on good coaching to get their stuff going.

Bargnani is not a good shot creator for others, but he's pretty decent at creating his own and that's where his true value resides. That and his shooting from the PF/C spot are what makes him attractive to other teams. With the right coach who can hide his weaknesses and maximize his strengths, he could have more success than he ever had here.

Of course, on any other team, his effort level would have to be increased, because he won't get as much leniency as he got here.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:01 PM   #160 (permalink)
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come on, you can't make that comparison, because not all points are created equal. It's like saying chandler is the best shooter in the league because he's shooting 70% from the field.

Bargnani has to create most of his shots, and often he has to do it late in the clock and 25 ft from the basket. It's debatable whether he spends so much time there by design or poor judgement, his coach maintains he values him for his floor spacing and we know that in the past he played much close to the basket with significantly better results.

The most valuable skill in the league, by far (imo), is shot creating ability. Extremely few players have the skill to create GOOD shots for them or for others, and a fairly small number have any shot creating skill at all. Probably 75-80% of all playes are helpless to generate any kind of offense on their own. Those players have to rely on others or on good coaching to get their stuff going.

Bargnani is not a good shot creator for others, but he's pretty decent at creating his own and that's where his true value resides. That and his shooting from the PF/C spot are what makes him attractive to other teams. With the right coach who can hide his weaknesses and maximize his strengths, he could have more success than he ever had here.

Of course, on any other team, his effort level would have to be increased, because he won't get as much leniency as he got here.
He's one-dimensional, and that one dimension can't even be relied on. He misses a ton of open shots, whether he creates them or not. He really needs to be able to create something for others to look at all worthwhile. Or he could play fully engaged on both ends like he did for 13 games. The fact that he tends to do it for about 13 games or less just makes him a drag on his team. And largely very inefficient.
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