Marc Stein: Lakers Receive Gasol Inquiries From Raptors, Wolves - Page 7
Old 12-08-2012, 05:28 PM   #121 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
Difference between Dirk and Bargs to me...
...
And there you derailed
I wrote it clearly, I didn't want to make a comparison or talk about a single palyer, it was a general discussion on the importance and the way to use stats.

Mostly because I agree with you about the way he should be used and considered. Man, Pau Gasol was unable to be the focal point of a team I fail to understand how someone can think Bargs will do it.
Sometimes I simply try to be objective when I read people spitting "absolute" statements.

Back on my point I simply wanted to state that a player surrounded by a winning good team can more easily put up much better stats and on the other side players on a very bad team get their stats "ruined".
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:34 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Is Bargs really being compared to Kevin Love and Dirk?

Good lord..... he's not even Mehmet Okur.

He MIGHT be Channing Frye. That's it.
No, no direct comparison, I start to think either my english is really bad or people here want to read only what they want.
Someone simply said Bargs is very inefficent, I used two much better players (hope the bold part makes it easier now) simply to show that % numbers are not that far.

I like to play devils advocate, but then if you want to bash him there're many other areas where I agree with you.
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:36 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Is Bargs really being compared to Kevin Love and Dirk?

Good lord..... he's not even Mehmet Okur.

He MIGHT be Channing Frye. That's it.
Pretty quiet last night you were. Lowry must have struggled.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:05 PM   #124 (permalink)
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I see the importance of stats to back the eye test and don't want to deny it. But often stats are misused or read without taking into account the surrounding enviroment.
I'll try to be more clear, stats for every player can be missleading based on the team around that particular player.
Wade winshares are 10 point less of those of Elton Brand or Alex English, though those are very good players there's no comparison with Wade. Maybe those years when Miami was a joke of a team didn't help him to raise his winshares.
It' quite simple, if your team is not winning, there's no winshares to raise.

If you put DD and Bargs on a team with LeBron and Dwight I'm pretty sure their stats (all of them apart Ppg) would be much better.
I love stats, but crude numbers tell only half of the story imho, but I'm open to be proven wrong
I agree that stats aren't the end all as it doesn't take into account everything but in that sense that's what makes stats so valuable - they're objective. Stats look at every player or team in the same way. There are no asterisks, etc, exceptions in involved.

Also, advanced stats are just as important (some say even more important) than regular stats.

Regarding your point about Wade, Elton Brand has been in the nba for 4 more seasons than Wade so it would make sense that he would have more win shares than Wade.

I think there's been a miscommunication between us. In my first post I said win shares/48 minutes which is what I have been talking about. You then stated win shares, I assumed you were talking about win shares/48 minutes so I've stated win shares partly to save time. Win shares is not the same because it is a total type stat. win shares/48 minutes is a lot better as it is a per 48 minute stat. When I talked about Hedo, Dirk, Iggy, Bargs and DD they were all regarding win shares/48 minutes.

Last edited by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!!; 12-08-2012 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:51 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Is Bargs really being compared to Kevin Love and Dirk?

Good lord..... he's not even Mehmet Okur.

He MIGHT be Channing Frye. That's it.
I think you missed my point. No comparisons except that Bargs shouldn't be compared to them period. He's not close to a Love or a Dirk or any other franchise player for that matter. He's paid 10 mil for a reason and should be used as such. Raps must be advertising Bargs for a trade as he shouldn't touch the ball in the 4th quarter IMO, he's terrible for the team in clutch situations and wilts when the intensity is elevated.

At this point I would take Blatche over Bargs. He is available next year
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:59 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
I think you missed my point. No comparisons except that Bargs shouldn't be compared to them period. He's not close to a Love or a Dirk or any other franchise player for that matter. He's paid 10 mil for a reason and should be used as such. Raps must be advertising Bargs for a trade as he shouldn't touch the ball in the 4th quarter IMO, he's terrible for the team in clutch situations and wilts when the intensity is elevated.

At this point I would take Blatche over Bargs. He is available next year
was about to give u a thumbs up until I read the blatche point. gonna dislike most of your posts for a while now
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:04 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rimpianto View Post
And there you derailed
I wrote it clearly, I didn't want to make a comparison or talk about a single palyer, it was a general discussion on the importance and the way to use stats.

Mostly because I agree with you about the way he should be used and considered. Man, Pau Gasol was unable to be the focal point of a team I fail to understand how someone can think Bargs will do it.
Sometimes I simply try to be objective when I read people spitting "absolute" statements.

Back on my point I simply wanted to state that a player surrounded by a winning good team can more easily put up much better stats and on the other side players on a very bad team get their stats "ruined".
I agree with your point for the most part as long as you're speaking about good players on bad teams and not franchise players on bad teams. A true franchise player like Dirk or Love will put up stats and make their team better regardless of who the team surrounds them with. Thats why other players want to play for those teams - even take less money to. Unfortunately for the Raps we have no one close to being a franchise player. When you mention them in a post comparisons are inevitable - almost unavoidable here.

Bargs is a great offensive player and really, his only knock is being drafted number 1 and some fans seeing him as a franchise player.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:05 PM   #128 (permalink)
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I think you missed my point. No comparisons except that Bargs shouldn't be compared to them period. He's not close to a Love or a Dirk or any other franchise player for that matter. He's paid 10 mil for a reason and should be used as such. Raps must be advertising Bargs for a trade as he shouldn't touch the ball in the 4th quarter IMO, he's terrible for the team in clutch situations and wilts when the intensity is elevated.

At this point I would take Blatche over Bargs. He is available next year
!!!!

Everyone talks about Bargnani being a 7 footer scared of the paint and only trying when he wants too (not that I agree with any of this), Well Blatche is that X10000

Guy couldn't crack Washingtons Roster, yes Washington. He was a headcase and got moved.

He could be on 3-4 more teams within the next 5-6 years
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:06 PM   #129 (permalink)
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was about to give u a thumbs up until I read the blatche point. gonna dislike most of your posts for a while now
Hey noooooow.......don't forget I put Cookie Monster there
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:11 PM   #130 (permalink)
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!!!!
See above....tough room tonight You do know I was kidding right?
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:18 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Toronto: Williams, Pekovic
Minnesota: JV
It will better for everybody. Toronto will get Williams and Center and they will be nice with Derozan and Bargn and Minesota will get center who will be a superstar with Rubio.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:21 PM   #132 (permalink)
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Toronto: Williams, Pekovic
Minnesota: JV
It will better for everybody. Toronto will get Williams and Center and they will be nice with Derozan and Bargn and Minesota will get center who will be a superstar with Rubio.
are you trolling or do you just want to leave this forum and team?
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:22 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Blatche actually looks a lot better this year, in a lesser role. I think getting amnestied might have scared the shit out of him. That, and a change of scenary probably helped. He's a pretty solid bench big for Brooklyn. He's given them some good minutes. I'm not saying he is better than Bargnani, but he is not the same laughing stock he was last year.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:24 PM   #134 (permalink)
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See above....tough room tonight You do know I was kidding right?
My apologies, didn't notice you were kidding
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:30 PM   #135 (permalink)
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My apologies, didn't notice you were kidding
Haha fuck man no worries. I like Blatches play lately, last year was a wash IMO, however the last thing the Raps need is another head case....we already have one in KL and usually 2 won't mix well
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:37 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Haha fuck man no worries. I like Blatches play lately, last year was a wash IMO, however the last thing the Raps need is another head case....we already have one in KL and usually 2 won't mix well
Lowry does look like he's a loss or two away from going malice at the palace
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:37 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pete View Post
Toronto: Williams, Pekovic
Minnesota: JV
It will better for everybody. Toronto will get Williams and Center and they will be nice with Derozan and Bargn and Minesota will get center who will be a superstar with Rubio.
If I was a new GM taking over for Colangelo, I would be hesitent to do it, since JV might be a 17/10 type player in a couple of years, but I would not hang up the phone. I'd listen because Pekovic is a solid big and it might be an opportunity to dump another contract. In order to make the salaries work for the trade, Minny is going to have to take something else back. If they would take Landry Fields, you at least consider it. It's not laughable.

Toronto: Williams and Pekovic

Minny: JV and Landry



The thing is, Minny is in compete right now mode, so I don't think Minny does it. They want to make the playoffs as quickly as possible and go as far as possible during the next few years while they are guaranteed to have Kevin Love.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:43 PM   #138 (permalink)
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are you trolling or do you just want to leave this forum and team?
No, I don’t want to watch Raptors anymore, but I watch because in this team play JV. I can’t understand how in this team were selected players like Derozan, Lowry, Kleiza, Bargnani and etc, who can’t make pass to free player. So JV don’t fit for Raptors he can’t play in this team because he will never get a ball so I make only suggestion what is better for everyone.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:52 PM   #139 (permalink)
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No, I don’t want to watch Raptors anymore, but I watch because in this team play JV. I can’t understand how in this team were selected players like Derozan, Lowry, Kleiza, Bargnani and etc, who can’t make pass to free player. So JV don’t fit for Raptors he can’t play in this team because he will never get a ball so I make only suggestion what is better for everyone.

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LOL, raptor123 is not part of those I am referring to. You know the new posters who join just to trash on players and only care about how JV and Kleiza do..

Will not name names..
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If Kleiza is traded or JV go's down for an extended period of time we would probably lose about 90% of the posters that have joined in the past 5 months
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:00 PM   #140 (permalink)
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O yes you are right. If JV will be sold it will happens. But according you name you will go out if Bargnani go out
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