Marc Stein: Lakers Receive Gasol Inquiries From Raptors, Wolves - Page 6
Old 12-08-2012, 02:27 AM   #101 (permalink)
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so then gimme a plus one rat

I jest.. seriously dough, click the thumbs up, it gives you a rush!


edit: just saw your edit*


hahahahahahahaha


it's good to laugh, haven't been doing much of it as a raps fan lately, for a couple years now...
I pretty much know who gives me -1 lol's. I think any poster that has a lithuanian flag is looking for one of my posts to -1.

Apparently I've struck a nerve with them, which is a shame because I really like JV, I just don't like Kleiza.

I promote we upgrade the +1/-1 to include who gave the rating. That would be wicked.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:09 PM   #102 (permalink)
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i neg'd pzabby's post because it's a fanboy piece of crap. classic example of excuse making. the worse of it all is that they actually believe that Bargnani gets his plays drawn up for him at the three point line and is discouraged from putting the ball on the floor and taking higher percentage shots. what fucking world are you guys living in??
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:13 PM   #103 (permalink)
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it's almost as if posters on here know nothing about bargnani, absolutely nothing. Bargnani in his career has been a better player playing in the high post, where he can shoot the mid range after getting room with a pump fake, drive with his quickness and pull up when he's made room, or drive straight to the bucket, or back his man down for an easy layup. that's where he's most versatile on offence and dare I say it, the man he's most compared to, nowitski. Bargnani is not, I repeat, NOT most effective on the three point line. he's not a good enough shooter from deep to be. gasol also operates in the high-mid post best, or at least he did, so acquiring gasol would be worse for this team. worse contract, worse player (right now), being put into the same position Bargs should be if we want to score the ball more efficiently. bargnani's defence has NOT, been the issue. his rotation's have been fine, or at least, not worse than the rest of the team. I really do believe the coach is to fault here and ocho. those two need to go. I've seen too much of an elite scorer being wasted on the 3 line just cause our coach is too dumb to incorporate a driving point guard and a high post player. and if anyone says it's not possible.. celtics right now anyone?
Bargs has been shit under THREE different head coaches now.

If I have to hear that "he's just misunderstood" one more time I might skin a puppy.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:58 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Can we please stop comparing Bargs to Dirk. Dirk is a phenomenally more efficient player on offense while taking on the same if not more usage. He's a #1 option in the nba. He also is a better rebounder. Bargs is a 3rd option on offense or a 6th man.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:04 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Can we please stop comparing Bargs to Dirk. Dirk is a phenomenally more efficient player on offense while taking on the same if not more usage. He's a #1 option in the nba. He also is a better rebounder. Bargs is a 3rd option on offense or a 6th man.
Who in their right mind is still saying he's Dirk II?
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:06 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Who in their right mind is still saying he's Dirk II?
Idk, I guess those who are not in their right minds.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:11 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Idk, I guess those who are not in their right minds.
but has anyone here been saying this recently?
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:21 PM   #108 (permalink)
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How dare you. Motiejunas is Dirk2, Bargnani is Dirk167. So trade him for Motiejunas. NAOU!
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:35 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
Can we please stop comparing Bargs to Dirk. Dirk is a phenomenally more efficient player on offense while taking on the same if not more usage. He's a #1 option in the nba. He also is a better rebounder. Bargs is a 3rd option on offense or a 6th man.
Don't want to compare them, but I'm tired of reading Dirk is "incredibly more efficient while bagnani is shit and there's noone in the universe more inefficient than him".

Dirk: 0.453 FG% - 0.327 3pt% - 6.3 Rpg
Bargs: .438 FG% - 0.362 3pt% - 4.9 Rpg

1.5% for FG is about 1 more bucket every 5 games, I'm impressed about how much more efficient that is...
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:39 PM   #110 (permalink)
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I think everyone time people compare Bargs to Dirk it makes our fanbase look like clowns. Let's cease this foolishness.
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:45 PM   #111 (permalink)
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I think everyone time people compare Bargs to Dirk it makes our fanbase look like clowns. Let's cease this foolishness.
Sure, I didn't want to compare them, I used Dirk because he's made an example of an efficient player while Bargs of an inefficient player and I don't see that much difference.
For a change, Kevin Love is .454 - .360, the same couple of shots every 5-6 games.
I fail to see this large impact and clearly there's an overvaluing of stats and % around the league.
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:55 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Don't want to compare them, but I'm tired of reading Dirk is "incredibly more efficient while bagnani is shit and there's noone in the universe more inefficient than him".

Dirk: 0.453 FG% - 0.327 3pt% - 6.3 Rpg
Bargs: .438 FG% - 0.362 3pt% - 4.9 Rpg

1.5% for FG is about 1 more bucket every 5 games, I'm impressed about how much more efficient that is...
Where are you getting your #s

I'm really curious actually.

Your Bargs' #s are correct but your Dirk #s are not. Dirk has averaged .475 FG % in his career. .380 3 PT FG % in his career and last but not least 8.3 rpg in his career.

I've found where you got your Dirk #s - the #s you've brought up are his career preseason averages.

And we haven't even brought up win shares/48 minutes.

Last edited by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!!; 12-08-2012 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:56 PM   #113 (permalink)
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I think everyone time people compare Bargs to Dirk it makes our fanbase look like clowns. Let's cease this foolishness.
Posters like you make our fanbase look like clowns
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:58 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Posters like you make our fanbase look like clowns
What fanbase are you a part of? The Bargnani fanbase. I'm a Raptor fan. Perhaps I do make the Bargnani fanbase look like clowns, you're right.



And btw, I -1 most of your posts because they're mainly garbled nonsense trying to prove Bargnani is some star-level player when any sane fan can tell otherwise. You're motivated by some partisan love for the guy and it's embarrassing.

I HOPE you -1'd my post.

Last edited by FLO; 12-08-2012 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:10 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Where are you getting your #s

I'm really curious actually.

Your Bargs' #s are correct but your Dirk #s are not. Dirk has averaged .475 FG % in his career. .380 3 PT FG % in his career and last but not least 8.3 rpg in his career.

I've found where you got your Dirk #s - the #s you've brought up are his career preseason averages.

And we haven't even brought up win shares/48 minutes.
Aye, you're right, I took preseason averages by mistake
Anyway, it was not a comparison with Dirk, I used Kevin Love as an example too, could have been everybody.

Don't derail going on every other aspects of the game (I know you can mention, use and compare every stat ), it was not about the players, it was simply a talk about efficiency and the fact that a 5% FG difference is less than a shot a game and therefore all this efficiency and stats talking is actually overvalued, Hedo win shares are about the same of Iguodala for example
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:25 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Aye, you're right, I took preseason averages by mistake
Anyway, it was not a comparison with Dirk, I used Kevin Love as an example too, could have been everybody.

Don't derail going on every other aspects of the game (I know you can mention, use and compare every stat ), it was not about the players, it was simply a talk about efficiency and the fact that a 5% FG difference is less than a shot a game and therefore all this efficiency and stats talking is actually overvalued, Hedo win shares are about the same of Iguodala for example
that's a pretty big mistake.

ok, well you and I were talking about dirk and Bargs specifically. you were taking into account .453 and .438 when it should have been .475 and .438. regarding win shares, yes it can be overblown but at the same time when you have players who produce at least above the average it's ok (hedo and iggy - sometimes they were very good) however the raps have below league average players playing significant minutes (bargs, dd). Dirk by the way was a god for multiple seasons win shares wise.

stats and efficiency are important (we just scratched the surface by the way). they're important to the game of basketball. I tend to see as how they're undervalued by many people. many people just look at the eye test or the information a gm or coach tells them but never look into it/research to see more truth.
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:45 PM   #117 (permalink)
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that's a pretty big mistake.

ok, well you and I were talking about dirk and Bargs specifically. you were taking into account .453 and .438 when it should have been .475 and .438. regarding win shares, yes it can be overblown but at the same time when you have players who produce at least above the average it's ok (hedo and iggy - sometimes they were very good) however the raps have below league average players playing significant minutes (bargs, dd). Dirk by the way was a god for multiple seasons win shares wise.

stats and efficiency are important (we just scratched the surface by the way). they're important to the game of basketball. I tend to see as how they're undervalued by many people. many people just look at the eye test or the information a gm or coach tells them but never look into it/research to see more truth.
I see the importance of stats to back the eye test and don't want to deny it. But often stats are misused or read without taking into account the surrounding enviroment.
I'll try to be more clear, stats for every player can be missleading based on the team around that particular player.
Wade winshares are 10 point less of those of Elton Brand or Alex English, though those are very good players there's no comparison with Wade. Maybe those years when Miami was a joke of a team didn't help him to raise his winshares.
It' quite simple, if your team is not winning, there's no winshares to raise.

If you put DD and Bargs on a team with LeBron and Dwight I'm pretty sure their stats (all of them apart Ppg) would be much better.
I love stats, but crude numbers tell only half of the story imho, but I'm open to be proven wrong
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:10 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Aye, you're right, I took preseason averages by mistake
Anyway, it was not a comparison with Dirk, I used Kevin Love as an example too, could have been everybody.

Don't derail going on every other aspects of the game (I know you can mention, use and compare every stat ), it was not about the players, it was simply a talk about efficiency and the fact that a 5% FG difference is less than a shot a game and therefore all this efficiency and stats talking is actually overvalued, Hedo win shares are about the same of Iguodala for example
Difference between Dirk and Bargs to me...

Speaking as a Bargs fan that's completely disappointed, I think the difference between Bargs and Dirk is WHEN they make their shots. Though Dirk can be incredibly inefficient at times, when the Mavs NEED a bucket he's there and more often than not he makes them, the Mavs win and everthing else doesnt matter. For discussion's sake, IF Bargs had the exact same stats BUT made his shots when the team really needs them - in the 4th in crunch time - fans could forgive his inefficiency as wins equal happy fans. Problem with Bargs is when the team needs him in the 4th he misses, the other team sprints the court before the Raps set and get a quick basket - stretching a close lead or taking it. This isn't something that happens on occasion, its happening every game. To me that's why Bargs is lambasted as he hurts the team and we lose and fans can't forgive losing. We can forgive inefficiency and poor play if he comes through when the team needs him but reality is he's not.

This is the reason Dirk is paid 21 million a year and Bargs is paid 10mil - the rare ability to 'be there' for his team when it truly matters. Barg fans, and I've been guilty of this in the past, need to let go of the idea he's a number 1 option on a team, ANY TEAM. Bargs is a streaky shooting stretch 4 with average defense at best, that makes him a 3rd option or 6th man, not a franchise level player. I personally held out hope that he would grow or maybe Smitch hurt his confidence and a 10 mil per contract was taking advantage of the situation but in reality, BC paid him the going rate for a 1 dimensional player - see DD and most of the rest of the draft class of '09. Bargs is who he is after 7 years and Raps fans are divided between a dwindling group that still believe he can evolve into a number 1 option (highly unlikely) and those that are frustrated that he's played as a number 1 when he should be coming off the bench or played as a 3rd option with the starters.

This to me is NOT Bargs' fault but BC's. He mistakenly drafted a player that he thought could bring something so unique to the NBA that Bargs would dominate. However players in the NBA are way to good compared to the Italian League Bargs dominated and it didn't work out. In the end BC rightly paid him for not being what he thought he drafted but for the player he is - a 20ppg scorer with average defense and little crunch time ability - in today's NBA that's a bargain.

Truly, the point that gets me as unforgivable is what if BC didn't gamble with the franchise and in 2006 drafted the post game of LA to pair with Bosh's mid range game? BC and Smitch could have walked out a lineup off LA, Bosh, Jorge, Delfino and TJ Ford with JC, MoPete and Rasho etc for depth. With that front court TJ and JC would have looked brilliant cause what player would drive on those front 3 with any consistent success? The franchise would definitely have gone in the right direction IMO.

Last edited by DocHoliday99; 12-08-2012 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:17 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Is Bargs really being compared to Kevin Love and Dirk?

Good lord..... he's not even Mehmet Okur.

He MIGHT be Channing Frye. That's it.
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:17 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Is Bargs really being compared to Kevin Love and Dirk?

Good lord..... he's not even Mehmet Okur.

He MIGHT be Channing Frye. That's it.
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