Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors sold to Rogers and BCE - Page 3
Old 12-09-2011, 05:11 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I'm not as excited as some of you. I am not expecting this will have much impact, if any, on the actual success of the teams on the ice/court/pitch.
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Old 12-09-2011, 05:32 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I'm not as excited as some of you. I am not expecting this will have much impact, if any, on the actual success of the teams on the ice/court/pitch.
I agree, it's not like the teams are able to spend much/if any more anyway.
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Old 12-09-2011, 06:26 PM   #43 (permalink)
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It goes far beyond being able to spend money. It's about operating properly, and with the proper motivation. The Raptors had 16 years of being bush-league, or just rising above bush-league status. Yes there was some bad luck along the way holding them down, but ultimately there hasn't been the proper framework in place to carry out a vision of how to succeed. Too many cooks. That always mucked things up one way or another. Now the same could happen here, but there is the motivation for it not to allow that to happen. And it looks like Tannenbaum is going to be something of a head chef. In a sense he has gained control of the whole package, while allowing the other two interests to make their gains and rely on him to take all the wrongs of the past and make them right.

Even if you want to entirely downplay the overall impact, there was simply no worse scenario for fans than what was already in place, outside of an owner like Sterling, or one that only intends to move the franchise. They could have replaced the Teacher's Fund with the keyboard cat and we'd be better off. You don't think so? Then I have to ask where you've been for 16 years.
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Old 12-09-2011, 06:30 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I could care less about Peddie we barely saw him anyway.
But I really hope this works out for the better, but I don't it changes much at least short term.
Peddie was rarely seen... but it seems like he always had a hand in the pot whenever a major decision had to be made... and that was almost always bad for us.
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:27 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Hopefully they rename the team to the Huskies.
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:59 PM   #46 (permalink)
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It goes far beyond being able to spend money. It's about operating properly, and with the proper motivation. The Raptors had 16 years of being bush-league, or just rising above bush-league status. Yes there was some bad luck along the way holding them down, but ultimately there hasn't been the proper framework in place to carry out a vision of how to succeed. Too many cooks. That always mucked things up one way or another. Now the same could happen here, but there is the motivation for it not to allow that to happen. And it looks like Tannenbaum is going to be something of a head chef. In a sense he has gained control of the whole package, while allowing the other two interests to make their gains and rely on him to take all the wrongs of the past and make them right.

Even if you want to entirely downplay the overall impact, there was simply no worse scenario for fans than what was already in place, outside of an owner like Sterling, or one that only intends to move the franchise. They could have replaced the Teacher's Fund with the keyboard cat and we'd be better off. You don't think so? Then I have to ask where you've been for 16 years.
So you believe that there were moves in place for the Raptors to bring in superior personnel, that the Teachers squashed? You think that if we had a better framework, it would have prevented a guy like BC being hired?

Sorry.... not buying it.

Oh - and to your last point..... how long have both Bell and Rogers been around? Longer than 16 years.... and all that time they have been after the same thing as OTPP.... banking fat stacks, yo. Don't expect that to suddenly change.

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Old 12-09-2011, 11:10 PM   #47 (permalink)
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So you believe that there were moves in place for the Raptors to bring in superior personnel, that the Teachers squashed? You think that if we had a better framework, it would have prevented a guy like BC being hired?

Sorry.... not buying it.
I didn't suggest the teachers squashed anything outright. Too many cooks means that there is enough interference to muck things up. The pension fund was all about playing it conservative and keeping the money rolling in. You change that modus operandi, and suddenly competency is defined in different terms, there is a different sort of accountability, and a different set of results are looked for. Who knows what that might have meant in the past. Surely BC could have still been hired, but he would have operated differently.

What have you seen in 16 years? GMs wanting to be owners and leaving town when the finances fall through. Then MLSE steps in. Is there a search for the best GM available? No they settle for the assistant, who has a coach try to usurp him. That coach is replaced by a guy that was pushed on us by the league. He is deemed too easy going so they hire a crazy man who points out that the whole bunch in suits is more into fraternizing with star players than making the most of the franchise. That leads to a new GM that never stood a chance, and likely was only expected to be able to fly under the radar, but shit his pants immediately by drawing attention to himself and saying his team sucked on paper. Finally Tanenbaum found a real, qualified GM in Colangelo. But you know all the machinations of those above and around him continued unabated, and decisions were made for him enough to make carrying out a blueprint more difficult than he could even make it himself. And then when he is finally held accountable, it's done at the board level, ineffectively and inappropriately.

It's not about one person, or any person, it's about too many people, and not enough focus on what is essential to succeeding on the court, by a long shot. That changes starting next year. Colangelo will have to prove his worth in different terms. And he won't be blocked from making any moves that might otherwise be deemed to risky. It will be like having a new GM. And if he doesn't get results, there will be a new GM. And hopefully it won't just be settling for his assistant over his coach. None of that sense of an eternal power vacuum is in play now. There is a direct line of authority, and results on the court will mean something. And that is obviously very different from the past.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:14 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Rogers has owned the Jays since 2000. Where have they ranked in payroll? There was a time when they tried to "Moneyball" it and are only now, taking the team seriously. However, in 11 years, they've made the playoffs how many times? Yep.

I really don't see too, too much changing in terms of establishing a winning culture. This was about the 'extra' materials that come with owning MLSE, specifically, the content. Listening to the interviews on the radio today, all I heard was how much Bell and SN want to be the number 1 sports content provider in the region and how much these 'iconic' properties are worth etc. This was all about the content (hence why, almost immediately both TSN and SN announced that they were sharing 41 Leaf games on the radio next year, as that property was up for auction after this year).
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:22 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Rogers has owned the Jays since 2000. Where have they ranked in payroll? There was a time when they tried to "Moneyball" it and are only now, taking the team seriously. However, in 11 years, they've made the playoffs how many times? Yep.

I really don't see too, too much changing in terms of establishing a winning culture. This was about the 'extra' materials that come with owning MLSE, specifically, the content. Listening to the interviews on the radio today, all I heard was how much Bell and SN want to be the number 1 sports content provider in the region and how much these 'iconic' properties are worth etc. This was all about the content (hence why, almost immediately both TSN and SN announced that they were sharing 41 Leaf games on the radio next year, as that property was up for auction after this year).
You missed Tanenbaum then. He talked about winning. And he's been the only guy ever driven to win here. He's the guy in charge of taking care of that I would think, while the other two interests get their content. Make no mistake, winning content means much more to them in terms of profits. They will not be standing in the way of that by meddling. There's just no gain for them to do so.

In terms of baseball, they have hardly been a disaster. Not making the playoffs in baseball is much different than in any other league, particularly in the division they are in.
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:00 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Yeah, all I know is bell and rogers paid 553Mil each (so I heard) and Larry bought in for an additional 5% and the sale was 1.32Bil. You're right though it was likely under 100Mil
Just a guess but the missing number is probably assumption of debt. That usually gets added to the sale price, next to actual money paid.
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:52 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Damn I should of cashed my 2 billion dollar savings bond and bought the Raps myself and told em to go buck wild and win win win! lol!
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:59 AM   #52 (permalink)
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I just wish that they'd consolidate all of these damn channels into 1 "Raps superchannel" now so we could see EVERY Raps game on it without fail.

I'd pay $20/mth just for that one channel. Srsly.
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:09 AM   #53 (permalink)
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I just wish that they'd consolidate all of these damn channels into 1 "Raps superchannel" now so we could see EVERY Raps game on it without fail.

I'd pay $20/mth just for that one channel. Srsly.
yup. the number of Sportsnet channels is too much. hopefully they organize the channels.
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:17 AM   #54 (permalink)
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I know this post is a few days late, but i was just reminded about something i heard on Friday. I was listening to prime time sports on friday when Bob had Keith Pelly and some other guy (some president or highup dude at Rogers) talk about the purchase and i gotta say i was pretty shocked at what the other guy was saying. ALL he was going on about was some corporate jargon about how this purchase was about expanding customers and expanding their brand, etc. That was all he was talking about. Nothing about a passion for the teams or sports or about winning. Only talking about growing the Rogers brand, expanding the Rogers name, getting more customers, etc. I mean fuck... this is one of the first chances speak to the public about buying these teams and dude was saying pretty much all the wrong things in my mind.
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:24 AM   #55 (permalink)
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I know this post is a few days late, but i was just reminded about something i heard on Friday. I was listening to prime time sports on friday when Bob had Keith Pelly and some other guy (some president or highup dude at Rogers) talk about the purchase and i gotta say i was pretty shocked at what the other guy was saying. ALL he was going on about was some corporate jargon about how this purchase was about expanding customers and expanding their brand, etc. That was all he was talking about. Nothing about a passion for the teams or sports or about winning. Only talking about growing the Rogers brand, expanding the Rogers name, getting more customers, etc. I mean fuck... this is one of the first chances speak to the public about buying these teams and dude was saying pretty much all the wrong things in my mind.

Yeah, it's all about content for the consumer! Oyy!
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:24 AM   #56 (permalink)
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I know this post is a few days late, but i was just reminded about something i heard on Friday. I was listening to prime time sports on friday when Bob had Keith Pelly and some other guy (some president or highup dude at Rogers) talk about the purchase and i gotta say i was pretty shocked at what the other guy was saying. ALL he was going on about was some corporate jargon about how this purchase was about expanding customers and expanding their brand, etc. That was all he was talking about. Nothing about a passion for the teams or sports or about winning. Only talking about growing the Rogers brand, expanding the Rogers name, getting more customers, etc. I mean fuck... this is one of the first chances speak to the public about buying these teams and dude was saying pretty much all the wrong things in my mind.
Good for him for being honest about what this purchase was all about. Personally, as a consumer, I hate being lied to.
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:08 PM   #57 (permalink)
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No, Bell bought 37.5%, they then split it internally for the 28/9.5% splits.
Bell has 37.5% power.
I said on paper.
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:36 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I said on paper.
You said on paper Rogers has the majority, which they do not.
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:44 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I know this post is a few days late, but i was just reminded about something i heard on Friday. I was listening to prime time sports on friday when Bob had Keith Pelly and some other guy (some president or highup dude at Rogers) talk about the purchase and i gotta say i was pretty shocked at what the other guy was saying. ALL he was going on about was some corporate jargon about how this purchase was about expanding customers and expanding their brand, etc. That was all he was talking about. Nothing about a passion for the teams or sports or about winning. Only talking about growing the Rogers brand, expanding the Rogers name, getting more customers, etc. I mean fuck... this is one of the first chances speak to the public about buying these teams and dude was saying pretty much all the wrong things in my mind.
To me that is exactly the positive impact already in play. If they want that brand to be polished up enough to make the expenditure more than worthwhile, then they are going to have to do more than say the right things as was perfected by the current regime. There are going to have to be some kind of hard and fast results.

I understand your sense of disappointment at an impersonal corporate interest being out of touch with what drives us as fans. I would love to o back to ownership situations that have much deeper roots in the community, rher than just rooting around in our pockets. But franchises are just out of the price range of the average rich guy that loves sports. It's a shame. But at least the business model we are looking at now, stands a chance of providing some results.
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Old 12-12-2011, 01:12 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I know this post is a few days late, but i was just reminded about something i heard on Friday. I was listening to prime time sports on friday when Bob had Keith Pelly and some other guy (some president or highup dude at Rogers) talk about the purchase and i gotta say i was pretty shocked at what the other guy was saying. ALL he was going on about was some corporate jargon about how this purchase was about expanding customers and expanding their brand, etc. That was all he was talking about. Nothing about a passion for the teams or sports or about winning. Only talking about growing the Rogers brand, expanding the Rogers name, getting more customers, etc. I mean fuck... this is one of the first chances speak to the public about buying these teams and dude was saying pretty much all the wrong things in my mind.
Tannenbaum seems to be the most passionate of the 3 thus far.... I guess we'll just have to wait and see how much of an influence (if any) he has over the other 2.
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