That makes no sense
Old 03-15-2010, 08:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,671
Representing:
Default That makes no sense

So you think Calderon is horrible and overpaid, jack is just a 7th man on a good team, hedu is a piece of shit who is worthless and untradeable. You also think derozan is a bust, and Bargnani is darko 2.0. You think banks and evans are just dead contracts and belinelli and wright are marginal nba players. You only like Bosh and once every 4 games Amir.

And still, you want to keep Bosh here? That makes no sense. All of our major players are on long contracts, and according to you are overpaid. Therefore you won't get anything in return in a trade. You can fire colangelo if you want, but that won't change this fact. So you will be stuck with the same supporting cast (or worse if you trade the "bad" contracts - you won't get kevin martin for hedu, but you might get elton brand).

So why bother? With Bosh, this team will always be competitive enough to miss on the top 10 draft picks. Which means you're looking at another 2-3 years of 1st round losses and mediocre draft picks, so when Bosh finally leaves, you're much worse.

Btw, for those of you who are new(er) to the site, I don't subscribe to many of these statements. But I do subscribe to the theory that this team should be dismantled, because unless MLSE commits 30+ million a year, it's impossible to significantly retool. And without that retooling, this team ain't getting much better through "internal improvement".
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 08:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,723
Representing:
Default

Oh - you're talking to your imaginary friend. That's adorable. Is his name Harvey?
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 08:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
lol

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,230
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
So you think Calderon is horrible and overpaid, jack is just a 7th man on a good team, hedu is a piece of shit who is worthless and untradeable. You also think derozan is a bust, and Bargnani is darko 2.0. You think banks and evans are just dead contracts and belinelli and wright are marginal nba players. You only like Bosh and once every 4 games Amir.

And still, you want to keep Bosh here? That makes no sense. All of our major players are on long contracts, and according to you are overpaid. Therefore you won't get anything in return in a trade. You can fire colangelo if you want, but that won't change this fact. So you will be stuck with the same supporting cast (or worse if you trade the "bad" contracts - you won't get kevin martin for hedu, but you might get elton brand).

So why bother? With Bosh, this team will always be competitive enough to miss on the top 10 draft picks. Which means you're looking at another 2-3 years of 1st round losses and mediocre draft picks, so when Bosh finally leaves, you're much worse.

Btw, for those of you who are new(er) to the site, I don't subscribe to many of these statements. But I do subscribe to the theory that this team should be dismantled, because unless MLSE commits 30+ million a year, it's impossible to significantly retool. And without that retooling, this team ain't getting much better through "internal improvement".
Play Banks.
gabe91 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 08:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
editing this message!

Senior Member
 
jj33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,477
Representing:
Default

we need LeBron to turn this franchise around,

jj33 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 895
Representing:
Default

If we would've traded Calderon for whatever pick we could get and just played Banks the back up PG minutes we'd be fine
jrob23 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
lol

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,230
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrob23 View Post
If we would've traded Calderon for whatever pick we could get and just played Banks the back up PG minutes we'd be fine
+1
gabe91 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 76,069
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrob23 View Post
If we would've traded Calderon for whatever pick we could get and just played Banks the back up PG minutes we'd be fine
And this place would have lost their collective mind if that was done last summer.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
DVS
in la la land

I'm stuck being a Rap Fan
 
DVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Its jeffb's world we just post in it
Posts: 6,023
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
So you think Calderon is horrible and overpaid, jack is just a 7th man on a good team, hedu is a piece of shit who is worthless and untradeable. You also think derozan is a bust, and Bargnani is darko 2.0. You think banks and evans are just dead contracts and belinelli and wright are marginal nba players. You only like Bosh and once every 4 games Amir.

And still, you want to keep Bosh here? That makes no sense. All of our major players are on long contracts, and according to you are overpaid. Therefore you won't get anything in return in a trade. You can fire colangelo if you want, but that won't change this fact. So you will be stuck with the same supporting cast (or worse if you trade the "bad" contracts - you won't get kevin martin for hedu, but you might get elton brand).

So why bother? With Bosh, this team will always be competitive enough to miss on the top 10 draft picks. Which means you're looking at another 2-3 years of 1st round losses and mediocre draft picks, so when Bosh finally leaves, you're much worse.

Btw, for those of you who are new(er) to the site, I don't subscribe to many of these statements. But I do subscribe to the theory that this team should be dismantled, because unless MLSE commits 30+ million a year, it's impossible to significantly retool. And without that retooling, this team ain't getting much better through "internal improvement".
Nicely said but it still stinks of negativety. Every average team in the NBA could say the same thing. Fact is when your at the bottom for a long time its very very hard to get out of it. Look at the Bulls, they were crap for years and now they are struggling just to become average. I don't believe in totally giving up on a situation but do believe in smart decisions.

Yes BC have made some questionable calls and now during a losing streak its easy to post up negative comments and let it stick to the wall.

I'm just trying to say before giving up think in reality not in NHL 2K10 mode.
DVS is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
is back baby

Large and in charge
 
Snooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All up in there
Posts: 8,160
Representing:
Default

Moemilk is right.

The team needs rebuilt but I think it can be done on the fly and Bosh is the first peice that needs to be moved along with one of the big contract guys(Hedo). Jose was fine last season when healthy and he will return to that form with the departure of Hedo therby rasing his value again for a trade.
Snooch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 10:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
mooing

Senior Member
 
babyface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,102
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooch View Post
Moemilk is right.

The team needs rebuilt but I think it can be done on the fly and Bosh is the first peice that needs to be moved along with one of the big contract guys(Hedo). Jose was fine last season when healthy and he will return to that form with the departure of Hedo therby rasing his value again for a trade.
Jose was fine last season when healthy?? WHAT??? So are you saying he's been unhealthy this entire season?
babyface is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 10:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,723
Representing:
Default

Bargnani is a good defender.

This whole thread is not supposed to make any sense right?
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 11:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
full of hope.

Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 415
Representing:
Default

I hate those fuckin *Play Banks* phrases. With Banks we wouldnt have won more games. Thats just bullshit.

Calderon is much better than Banks will ever be. One Player cant solve our big defensive problem. Stop those sinceless phrases. Its not Calderons fault and yes, hes not that good this season but still better than Banks.

Stop it, i cant hear it anymore.
Raptor99 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 11:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 76,069
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor99 View Post

Stop it, i cant hear it anymore.
Are you reading or hearing it?

JK
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 11:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
full of hope.

Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 415
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Are you reading or hearing it?

JK
Raptor99 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 11:22 PM   #15 (permalink)
Put Comment Here- Maybe I will

Senior Member
 
F1nir_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 512
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
So you think Calderon is horrible and overpaid, jack is just a 7th man on a good team, hedu is a piece of shit who is worthless and untradeable. You also think derozan is a bust, and Bargnani is darko 2.0. You think banks and evans are just dead contracts and belinelli and wright are marginal nba players. You only like Bosh and once every 4 games Amir.

And still, you want to keep Bosh here? That makes no sense. All of our major players are on long contracts, and according to you are overpaid. Therefore you won't get anything in return in a trade. You can fire colangelo if you want, but that won't change this fact. So you will be stuck with the same supporting cast (or worse if you trade the "bad" contracts - you won't get kevin martin for hedu, but you might get elton brand).

So why bother? With Bosh, this team will always be competitive enough to miss on the top 10 draft picks. Which means you're looking at another 2-3 years of 1st round losses and mediocre draft picks, so when Bosh finally leaves, you're much worse.

Btw, for those of you who are new(er) to the site, I don't subscribe to many of these statements. But I do subscribe to the theory that this team should be dismantled, because unless MLSE commits 30+ million a year, it's impossible to significantly retool. And without that retooling, this team ain't getting much better through "internal improvement".
You are high... CLEARLY. Every one loves Evans and Banks, and everything else except Turk and Triano
F1nir_ is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 11:44 PM   #16 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,671
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS View Post
Nicely said but it still stinks of negativety. Every average team in the NBA could say the same thing. Fact is when your at the bottom for a long time its very very hard to get out of it. Look at the Bulls, they were crap for years and now they are struggling just to become average. I don't believe in totally giving up on a situation but do believe in smart decisions.
Precisely!
Try thinking of any average team in the nba, not composed of very young players, who ever raised from mediocrity to excelence without the draft.

In the past 4-5 years I can think of Boston (with the KG/Allen trade), Denver (after the Billups trade) and Phoenix (after the Nash trade). You can maybe add Detroit and Miami (after shaq) to the list. All the other good teams were built by having an elite player to start (duncan/kobe/lebron/wade/paul/howard), or by drafting very high for several years (portland/okc/atlanta and soon to be joined by milwaukee and chicago), or by spending gazillions every year (dallas).

Fact is, when you are at the bottom, you have at least a .500 chance to get out of it. Even the Bulls, who you refer to, they are in a much better spot than us. They have the same record as us, have several young players who have large improvement ahead of them (noah, rose, gibson) AND max cap space to sign a top FA. Say they get Wade or Bosh next season, that team would be VERY GOOD. Atlanta, Portland, Memphis, OKC, Milwaukee are all ahead of us right now after stinking bad for a while, and their prospects are better too.

Only the Clippers, NYK and GSW seem to stay there for long, but their management is atrocious. Even the Nets and Minesotta are in good shape. The Nets will have a high draft pick, and max cap space. They could add Evan Turner and if Lebron gets there, they are title contenders easily. Even if they lose on Lebron, and get rudy gay or bosh, they're still in much better shape than us (in our current format).

I would love for this team to be able to make the next step through trades, but I can't think of any realistic way to do it. The only good asset we have is Bargnani, but what are you going to get for him? Many of our own fans think he's useless (darko 2.0), so unless they're wrong, at best you will get somebody like Richard Jefferson in return (or similar player - past his prime and with a bad contract). Without a center, what good will that be? Beyond that, derozan has very little value right now, and beyond THAT there's nothing that could get you at least that near all-star, which will probably not be good enough anyway. If this team is one all-star away from contention, how are we going to get that player?
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 11:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,671
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrob23 View Post
If we would've traded Calderon for whatever pick we could get and just played Banks the back up PG minutes we'd be fine
you seriously think banks could turn this franchise around????
I've actually suggested the possibility of playing banks during the pre-season, and I was pretty much laughed at for it. But let's not get carried away, banks is an ok backup and a very good defender. But a franchise saver he is not ...
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 11:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,671
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS View Post

Yes BC have made some questionable calls and now during a losing streak its easy to post up negative comments and let it stick to the wall.
I think BC is a great GM, and I didn't question any of his calls (except for kapono). Obviously some of the moves didn't work - but I saw the logic in all of them. You can question his overall philosophy, but only a fool would question his mastery in executing his strategy. Maybe his offensive-minded team is not the way to go. But you have to respect the way he pursued his vision.

As far as negativity, I disagree. My post (sarcastic in parts as it was) is just presenting a different approach to building that elite team we want to see here. I've been pushing for this approach for almost two years now. I usually meet with a lot of resistance, usually from CB's fanbase who somehow associate the idea of rebuilding with some kind of attack at Chris. At times I thougt I was wrong (like this January). But for the most part, I never saw anything here to suggest eliteness.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 12:07 AM   #19 (permalink)
happy the day is finished at noon on Monday!

Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 66
Representing:
Default

So what's the answer then?
.
Who goes (free agency) and who can you trade? Bosh, Hedo, Bargs, Caldy. Those are the potential big four contracts. Can you attach one to a Bosh S&T like Hedo - what would you get in return then? Money says we are stuck with what we got H.B.C.... but boy does that rumoured Bosh for Bynum trade look sweet now.
RapCow is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 12:32 AM   #20 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,671
Representing:
Default

the answer is trade all assets for young players, as long as you can get good value in return. If you get a top 5 pick for bargnani, go for it. If you get a #1-#2 pick for Bosh, go for it. Maybe a #20 for calderon. Try to get rid of the long term contracts in the process (hedu etc), even if it means getting worse contracts short term. Trade hedu for Brand if you can, because he expires in 2-3 years.

Try to get all the veteran contracts to expire in the same year. If you get a #1 and a #5 and a #20, add another #1-#5 for the next 2 years. That gives you 4 very high quality draft picks and hopefully a few low first rounders from other moves. Pray you get a lebron or a duncan with one of them. Even if you don't, that's still a very solid base. Than in 3 years you have room for one max free agent and maybe another solid 10 million player. Try to sell them the strong core (kind of like OKC who is a worse market than us). It's not 100%. BUt I'd rather take a 30% chance of success over a 99% chance of failure.

Bosh for Bynum only makes sense if you want to keep fighting with this group. If you failed with Bosh, you won't do much different with Bynum ...
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24