LX: Hold Your Breath Bryan
Old 11-15-2008, 10:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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•LX•'s blog entry from yesterday.

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Hey Bryan - we both know it. There is not a lot that can be done with this roster as it is, and there is not a lot that can be done to make it work better with a trade. Forget about trading Bargnani, and forget about moving him to the 3 spot. The guy is looking comfy as a 4/5, and really more as a 5 than a 4. He could easily turn out to be more valuable in the future than Mr. Oden. When he hangs out beyond the arc he regresses a little. Playing out there is just not the same as it was in Europe where the three-point line is closer, allowing him to get to the basket with his one-dribble move much easier. In the NBA he just gets stifled and frustrated trying to play the same way, and ends up being a turnover machine or a 7-foot, long-distance, jump shooter. As a three you’d think that his real strengths, as they are starting to be shown on both ends, are just going to get lost. This is no time for him to risk regressing in any way.

And he’s too good to trade. The value coming back to the Raptors in any trade is not going to make it worthwhile, unless we end up throwing in multiple players, and there’s not a lot of players on this team that are going to get a trade done. Hell - there’s not a lot of players on this team. Any trade is going to have to be even up in terms of the numbers of players, or weighted in our favor with the players coming back. The roster cannot sustain fewer bodies ready to play.

So if there is a wing guy out there that is going to truly make all the difference, then go out and get him Bryan, but it better be a better sales job than Harrington, Wallace, or Maggette. Maybe you should look over what was being offered for Jose, because that looks like the only real option to make a difference. By adding JO, and shipping out TJ, we have moved towards a team that must execute in the half-court. What if, in return for Ocho Loco, we could get an average pg that plays good defense and will hold up mentally and physically over a full season, and get just the right wingman as well? Tempting? I don’t see you ever doing that Mr. Colangelo. I’m not sure I even see you considering the option. But I would hope you could if it became obvious that something had to be done. The fans will applaud you if you fire the coach, but I think we both know that more will have to be done to really make them happy. I loved that team of two years past as much as you, but there’s no sense in hanging on to Jose for that reason alone. All the same, when it comes to JMC being the guy that gets traded, I won’t hold my breath.

Of course Jose can start playing like he did two seasons ago, or like he did in stints last year. He can start mixing up the pace, make some full-court passes, get into the paint and create some shots or fouls. And maybe Kapono could be moved into the starting lineup in place of Anthony Parker. Parker has shown all too often that he starts games slow. He’s a second-half guy. And I can’t imagine Kapono missing all those shots against Philly when the defense was still doing the job. Jamario? Let him run and grab the rebounds. If Kapono can be the guy that fires from long-range, and Moon can be the guy that moves off the three-point line and makes the defense work a little, then maybe we don’t need to make that trade. Jamario doesn’t have to be super-aggressive, because he just ain’t gonna be. But if he could at least progress enough to make the right play and start to facilitate things for others, then things might fall into place.

And Parker coming off the bench can mean that he’s got more in the tank to tighten up the defense in the fourth quarter. He can play alongside a guy that he knows better than anyone else on the team. And he can take pressure off of either Solomon or Ukic, because he is such a good facilitator himself.

Yep - there are things that can be done without touching Bargnani in any way. I’m hoping to see a little lineup shuffle and a little change of pace make things better, before we even have to consider seeing a guy that we love, like Jose, head out of town. Of course much of the fixing what is there now, rests with Sam. And I hope he makes enough happen before he has to leave town himself. So for now, hold your breath, and be ready to do what is needed once you finally exhale.
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Nice read LX.
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Old 11-15-2008, 12:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
is.....

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sounds like a plan, so BC get to it!
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Old 11-15-2008, 12:20 PM   #4 (permalink)
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BC have/is/will get it done

This speech must be aimed at coach.
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Old 11-15-2008, 04:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Excellent ... good blog entry LX
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Old 11-15-2008, 04:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Playing out there is just not the same as it was in Europe where the three-point line is closer, allowing him to get to the basket with his one-dribble move much easier
This is simply not true. No 3 second violation means constant zone defense wich makes it more difficult to get to the basket. He would get a million offensive fouls if he did whathe does in the NBA here.
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Nice read LX, as always. I disagree on the Bargnani part however. But that's just me.
If BC makes another safe bet move that gets us some change but really doesn't change much, he's just the same as any other MLSE puppet we've ever had. With all due respect.
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Old 11-15-2008, 07:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Trade Jose rather than Bargs?

Yikes.
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Old 11-15-2008, 08:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Belsius View Post
This is simply not true. No 3 second violation means constant zone defense wich makes it more difficult to get to the basket. He would get a million offensive fouls if he did whathe does in the NBA here.
Of course he makes his move when there's an opening, on either side of the water. But over there, the one dribble got him to where he wasn't lunging at the end and somewhat out of control. Why do you think he travels so much when he starts that move over here? He wants to be that little distance closer to the net to be able to have success.

Looking at it further, look at games where he plays inside the arc pre-dominantly and is able to use that one-dribble with tremendous success and a much better comfort level overall. Then look at games like the one against Atlanta, where he stood outside way too much and looked like the guy from last season, on offense at least.

Now - if Bargnani is the guy that gets traded, then how do we really get good value in return, when he doesn't have the fat contract yet, and there really isn't a lot to work with in terms of throwing in other players that anyone might want. And I hardly think trading Andrea now would mean selling high. But we know there have been plenty of juicy offers already on the table for Jose. And I think that move would be about making a definitive change, whereas moving Andrea at this point of his development for someone that might be an upgrade on Moon and Graham combined, but still not complete the lineup in any way consistently, just leaves the same kinds of questions for this season, while Andrea maybe ends up having a long career somewhere else.

Still my preference would be to sit tight and see how things pan out with what we've got. It's still early, and the main guys are doing well. I'm not ready to panic and start saying that it's impossible to win with the wings we have right now.

Last edited by LX; 11-15-2008 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 11-16-2008, 01:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
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For the most part I agree with LX. Moving Andrea is not the solution. Although, I would have to say the same is true for Jose. Today's game is a point guard's game and JC is among the best. Personally, I say wait (as u also preferred) till next season's trade deadline and move Jermaine O'Neal. His value is only going to increase the closer he gets to the end of his $23million contract as by mid next season there'll be a lot of lottery-bound teams looking to rebuild. What better way to rebuild than to acquire a $23mill expiring contract? What if Milwaukee starts out next season 20-30? (not unlikely) Do they move Michael Redd for $23mill in cap space in a few months? If they're no longer playing for the playoffs, then why not? And on Toronto's side, if our patience nets us Michael Redd, is it not worth another potential 1st round loss this season? Just because we got JO this season doesn't mean we are in "win-now" mode. Bosh and Calderon are just entering the beginning of the primes of their careers. Bargnani is showing serious signs of improvement and should be a legit starting centre by next season (hopefully). The Raptors are still a young team and reallistically the window of opportunity for a championship hasn't opened yet so any deal that's done has to be done with the future at the forefront of consideration. Bargnani must not be moved. And neither should Jose. It's gotta be JO, just not yet. His value peaks in February, 2010. The Raptors should peak around June.
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Old 11-16-2008, 01:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Good article, but trading JC for a "decent PG and decent wing" is NOT the answer. It might help us this year, but will hamper our future chances... having a top tier PG is essential to contending. I'd rather just accept we're not winning the title this year and look at the big picture, we can keep Jose and fill our wings in the upcoming years when JO's contract expires and Bargs is ready to be a starting C. Patience is a virture. Right now the big picture to me looks like if we get Joe Johnson (or god forbid, Wade) in 2010, we're contenders. If we don't, well... fuck. But we still have a ton of options with that capspace and looking at the big picture, we're looking fine and there's no need to panic for a short fix.

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Old 11-16-2008, 01:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
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yeah, even if we can't move JO by the end of next season his deal will expire and we'll have over 20mill in cap space in a very deep free agent class, either way we're in great shape for the future
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Old 11-16-2008, 02:03 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Yeah, I didn't even consider the possibility of getting the wing before JO's contract expires by just moving him to a team that wants it.
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Old 11-16-2008, 02:16 AM   #14 (permalink)
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i figured that way we might be able to get a star who might not have signed with toronto as TO is not a big free agent destination
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:32 AM   #15 (permalink)
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So you guys missed the NBA Finals last season? I wouldn't call Rondo, House, Fisher and Farmar anything close to being top tier point guards. I think having a strong pg who can play defense, and a truly complimentary wing player would mean more to this team than a top tier point guard. Unfortunately this team has only ever been around .500 with Jose starting, and I'd like to improve on that, even if it doesn't mean winning a title.

But again I emphasize that it's still too early to pull any triggers. I would simply hope that BC doesn't outright dismiss the idea of trading Jose. There is a chance that he could really bring a lot back in value, and make the O'Neal contract something that really takes the team over the top.
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:42 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LX View Post
Of course he makes his move when there's an opening, on either side of the water. But over there, the one dribble got him to where he wasn't lunging at the end and somewhat out of control. Why do you think he travels so much when he starts that move over here? He wants to be that little distance closer to the net to be able to have success.
Dunno LX, I think he travels so much because he isn't named Kobe or Lebron

At the end of the day travelings are about when you get up your pivot foot, not about how far goes the first foot. Maybe more than distance is on the quickness of rebounding the ball. Dunno, it could be a lot of things.

It would be nice to know how he did it before NBA to know what is the reason.
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Dunno LX, I think he travels so much because he isn't named Kobe or Lebron

At the end of the day travelings are about when you get up your pivot foot, not about how far goes the first foot. Maybe more than distance is on the quickness of rebounding the ball. Dunno, it could be a lot of things.

It would be nice to know how he did it before NBA to know what is the reason.
I think the traveling calls come about because he is not committing to the dribble until he's already made his move. It's just not a problem if he gets the ball anywhere inside the arc, and he's been able to finish with strong dunks instead of awkward misses. Also, without having to so forcefully lunge to get to the basket, he can pull up and take the mid-range jumper if things close down. I could be on the wrong track, but so far I think that the guy has rediscovered the game he had in Europe, by playing that little bit closer to the basket, and then adding the weight and strength to compliment that comfort level further by gaining a good presence in the paint on both ends. He has a lot more he can depend on now.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:06 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I think the traveling calls come about because he is not committing to the dribble until he's already made his move.
It could be, dunno, haven't watched it with that detail, I will have to look out it, I'll look for it next game and I'll tell you.

Although I would really like that we just didn't watch it any more, 3 years at the league is enough time to learn it IMO.
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