Loyalty between a player, a team and a fanbase
Old 07-24-2012, 01:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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First of all I want to point out that I do think its time for Calderon and the Raptors to part ways for the good of both sides. This is something that I want to point out before starting this thread.

The point of this thread is to know what people think about the loyalty a team or a fanbase owes to a player. Fans always criticise players for going after money or a championship quitting the teams that gave them an oportunity (see Bosh or Carter) so it amazes me how much hate Calderon gets when he shows the contrary. I understand that people dont think he can work in the team anymore (like i said before, i dont think either), but the lack of respect he gets after giving everything to the Raptors, specially knowing how this fanbase never stops complaining about how players dont ever want to stay, is pretty interesting.

So, is it fair to expect loyalty from players anymore in a sport thats 100% about business? Is it really everything about winning?
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think the loyalty issue should be considered between a player and a team on it's own. The fanbase can form opinions, but the relationship is between the player and the team. The loyalty of the fanbase issue comes into play in a team and fanbase context.
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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There was never really a great deal of loyalty. Going way back it would be hard to imagine some players going to rival teams, but it still happened even then, before big money was involved. They still got payed for playing a game, and weren't going to have allegiances keep them from that ideal.

The only merchandise I ever owned, and still own, is my number 8 jersey. I'll still follow the guy's career, and cheer him on (unless he's a Laker) right to the end.

At the same time I do the same for Bosh.

I stopped cheering for Vince long before he left here. And cheered against T-Mac only after he dumped on his Orlando team so badly, and became so badly over-hyped.

It's all about the game for me. The players owe me nothing but a love for the game and some dedication to it. The teams owe me nothing but an honest pursuit at improving and not selling me empty promises and hopes that have no chance to materialize. Keeping the game accessible to those of us in the 99 percent would be a nice thing to see, and if that can't happen I'll still have the memories, and my number 8 in red on white.
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The only merchandise I ever owned, and still own, is my number 8 jersey. I'll still follow the guy's career, and cheer him on (unless he's a Laker) right to the end.
You own a Calderon jersey? Seriously?

On the subject at hand - ideally, I'd say that certain amount of loyalty should be there on both sides. In practice, and especially in recent history, there is no such thing anymore and I, for one, find it depressing.

But why stop at professional sports? Is there such thing as loyalty left in the society at large? What about loyalty of an employer to their employees in general? Kids to their parent? Spouses? I know I am going to sound old and cranky, but it appears that "every man for himself" attitude has permeated all the facets of our lives, unfortunately.
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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These perceptions are created on messageboards and in the media. Nothing has changed for Jose Calderon or the Raptors. A new player was acquired that may be better, it remains to be seen if thats even the case, however, nobody hates Calderon. People are just fickle is all, the forget things so quickly, or the give in to popular belief regardless of its factual basis.
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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These perceptions are created on messageboards and in the media. Nothing has changed for Jose Calderon or the Raptors. A new player was acquired that may be better, it remains to be seen if thats even the case, however, nobody hates Calderon. People are just fickle is all, the forget things so quickly, or the give in to popular belief regardless of its factual basis.
Well, you yourself have considered some recent quotes from BC and Casey as "throwing Jose under the bus", haven't you?
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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These perceptions are created on messageboards and in the media. Nothing has changed for Jose Calderon or the Raptors. A new player was acquired that may be better, it remains to be seen if thats even the case, however, nobody hates Calderon. People are just fickle is all, the forget things so quickly, or the give in to popular belief regardless of its factual basis.
Im obviously talking about the fanbase principally.
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The question is how surprised Gasol is that Calderon, one of the most efficient point guards in the league — his 4.74 assists per turnover laps the rest of the league this season — is continually being run out of town by fans who want him traded or in the case of last season, actually traded and then brought back when the deal fell through.

“It does surprise me,” Gasol said. “All he cares about his making his teammates better and winning. In the league those guys are hard to find. Guys that just play the right way and get everyone involved and move the ball. They don’t care about anything else but winning.”

That in a nutshell is Calderon. He is so intent on getting a shot for a teammate that he often passes up good shots for himself which also brings on criticism. That kind of unselfishness would seem ideal in a point guard, but apparently he’s not everyone’s cup of tea.


Gasol gives Calderon props | Basketball | Sports | Toronto Sun
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The question is how surprised Gasol is that Calderon, one of the most efficient point guards in the league — his 4.74 assists per turnover laps the rest of the league this season — is continually being run out of town by fans who want him traded or in the case of last season, actually traded and then brought back when the deal fell through.

“It does surprise me,” Gasol said. “All he cares about his making his teammates better and winning. In the league those guys are hard to find. Guys that just play the right way and get everyone involved and move the ball. They don’t care about anything else but winning.”

That in a nutshell is Calderon. He is so intent on getting a shot for a teammate that he often passes up good shots for himself which also brings on criticism. That kind of unselfishness would seem ideal in a point guard, but apparently he’s not everyone’s cup of tea.


Gasol gives Calderon props | Basketball | Sports | Toronto Sun
Dude this is not a thread about Calderon Vs the world. Is more about the relation between a fan base and any player. Please dont hijack this thread with your obsessions. Ill delete your posts if you do.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Dude this is not a thread about Calderon Vs the world. Is more about the relation between a fan base and any player. Please dont hijack this thread with your obsessions. Ill delete your posts if you do.
Caldys name mentioned in 6 posts......just commenting and supporting this thread regarding fan base , loyalty......in the eyes of another NBA player. No hijack intended !
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The question is how surprised Gasol is that Calderon, one of the most efficient point guards in the league — his 4.74 assists per turnover laps the rest of the league this season — is continually being run out of town by fans who want him traded or in the case of last season, actually traded and then brought back when the deal fell through.

“It does surprise me,” Gasol said. “All he cares about his making his teammates better and winning. In the league those guys are hard to find. Guys that just play the right way and get everyone involved and move the ball. They don’t care about anything else but winning.”

That in a nutshell is Calderon. He is so intent on getting a shot for a teammate that he often passes up good shots for himself which also brings on criticism. That kind of unselfishness would seem ideal in a point guard, but apparently he’s not everyone’s cup of tea.


Gasol gives Calderon props | Basketball | Sports | Toronto Sun
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I dont hate Jose, his game just frustrates me more than anyone on the team...
As far as his loyalty & personality goes I like the guy.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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no doubt that JC is as loyal as they come - especially in today's NBA standards.

but then again, the word loyalty and sports are like oil and water...just don't mix well together..
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I dont hate Jose, his game just frustrates me more than anyone on the team...
As far as his loyalty & personality goes I like the guy.
+1.

about loyalty:
i think someone already put my thoughts.
loyalties are undervalue right now in all aspect of the society.
so if you find some, keep it.

but how about being realistic, NBA isn't really about sport, it's about tv rating, money, etc...

why do you think star can take less money to go create a contender with some other big star ? because their is more money aside from the court.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i think there is a bit of a problem with people saying we get mad at tmac and vince leaving us and we dont appreciate guys like Calderon wanting to stay. Although its great that we have these players that love the city and want to make it work ( im a jose fan). It would be stupid as a franchise if we just kept and held onto players because they loved the city and were loyal, you'd build a terrible team that way. The NBA is a business players through FA should be able to find the best situation for them and teams through trades should be able to find the right pieces for them to win. Thats just the way things work.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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+1.

about loyalty:
i think someone already put my thoughts.
loyalties are undervalue right now in all aspect of the society.
so if you find some, keep it.

but how about being realistic, NBA isn't really about sport, it's about tv rating, money, etc...

why do you think star can take less money to go create a contender with some other big star ? because their is more money aside from the court.
and championships. those still hold some value don't ya know
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:34 PM   #17 (permalink)
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and championships. those still hold some value don't ya know
Championships hold huge value to any team.
Because once a team wins 1 championship that means the hex is gone & you have more of a chance to win another.
Plus the fans can always remember the glory days.

Now if u go too long between championships then you end up like the leafs lol
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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you know i think as fans we all need to forget about the past, what happened with players that moved on

no more booing vince and mcgrady that should be buried, dead and gone, i can understand if people want to boo Bosh becuase those wounds are fresh circa two years ago, but honestly the dude was a free agent and left to play with a top 10 player of all time in lebron james cant be mad about that

i do like geting on the other team though booing them taunting certian players, nice chants like hoooowwwarrrd going, but booing certian players is geting real old, it was fun to start with but started to become cringe worthy a couple of years ago, to outright embarrassing

the Raptors organisation has come along way, its a destination place, you dont see lowry being choked he got traded to canada and this guy is a borderline allstar and could be allstar this year with rose and his game showing steady growth

just build a winner thats all that really matters
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:15 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Plus booing the guys who left doesn't really help us win the game. It just motivates the player to beat us.

Carter Alley-Oop Game winner vs Toronto..." target="_blank">Vince Carter Alley-Oop Game winner vs Toronto...
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:32 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Plus booing the guys who left doesn't really help us win the game. It just motivates the player to beat us.

Vince Carter Alley-Oop Game winner vs Toronto Raptors - YouTube
That is some amateur defense right there by Ocho. Anthony Parker not much better.


I thought these guys were high IQ players?
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