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-   -   Lowry vs Calderon (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/lowry-vs-calderon-23369.html)

raptor123 07-09-2012 12:18 PM

Lowry vs Calderon
 
Who really is better and can they co exist ??????

Now I like Lowry. He’s a pass first PG who plays good defense and can hit the three. Before he became ill last season, he was playing near All -Star basketball.

That doesn’t mean I’m incredibly happy with the deal. First of all, I HATE the idea of giving up a lottery pick, especially for a team with so little real talent. Unless Lowry turns into a perennial All Star, I’d rather keep the lottery pick and take my chances.

Another problem I have is whether he’s really that much of an upgrade over Jose Calderon. Yes, he’s a better defender than Calderon, but Calderon is a better passer. And Calderon is also a much better shooter. Lowry is a career 42% shooter, from the field compared to Calderon’s 48%.

And while Lowry is younger, it’s not as if he’s THAT young. He’s 26, so it’s doubtful he gets much better than he is right now. And he’s only 4 years younger than Calderon.

The other problem with Lowry, especially when you’re talking about him replacing Calderon, is that he hasn’t played a full season since his second. In fact, in the last five season, Lowry has missed MORE games than Calderon. One of the biggest reasons for replacing Calderon was his lack of durability, but will Lowry be an improvement at all, in that department?

link : picket fence

I like them both......... i really think it can work keeping them both !!!!!!!!!

jeffb 07-09-2012 12:24 PM

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-W6wTPQIpf8...n%3F+-+pic.jpgRY



LOWRY>>>>>>>>>>CALDERON



/

raptor123 07-09-2012 12:27 PM

Jeff we really don't know that ??????

Calderon > TJ
Calderon >Jack
Calderon > Bayless
Calderon > Lowry

Jeff you were wrong with the first 3 heres your chance to get it right on the 4th one lol !

LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! 07-09-2012 12:28 PM

Yes, we just gave a future 1st round draft pick for a backup PG.

Has anyone noticed where the raps were when Jose was a sub? They were much better off.

EggsToTheBBQ 07-09-2012 12:31 PM

With the team as it is, I think that Calderon is the better fit.

This is because the Raptors have so few players that can consistently find teammates for good shots.

If the Raptors were to get a player that can effectively distribute from another position (Iggy), then I think that Lowry's defense and driving to the basket would outweigh his shortcomings as a passer, and in that situation he'd be the better fit.

RAPMAN 07-09-2012 12:33 PM

When we had the PG tandem of Jose & TJ or Jose & Jack, we were in the playoffs or fighting for the playoffs. Instead of complaining who is better, enjoy having 2 starting calibre point guards. Its an advantage, not a disadvantage.

jeffb 07-09-2012 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raptor123 (Post 668092)
Jeff we really don't know that ??????

Calderon > TJ
Calderon >Jack
Calderon > Bayless
Calderon > Lowry

Jeff you were wrong with the first 3 heres your chance to get it right on the 4th one lol !

First 3 times? When did i say Bayless was better than Jose, same with TJ Ford. Jarrett Jack imo was here 1.5 seasons and out played Jose for the first year and it wasn't even that close. Jarrett Jack and Jose are roughly in the same league as PG's imo. Even TJ before that devestating injury was outplaying Jose who has at times been inconsistent and injury prone.

IMO the only PG out of those 3 that isn't in his tier is Bayless who's a notch or two below. But Jose, TJ, Jack are all in the same tier imo.


Lowry is better (imo) just based on his aggression, toughness, defense, and yes is better offensively. Now he is exactly what i think this team needs just on defense alone and i believe fits Casey's system a lot better. Calderon is a good PG but for me his style bothers me, mainly his shitty D and his over dribbling and overly safe play and most slower pace. I think we all have preferences on what type of PG we like to watch, i much rather watch Lowry's style and toughness on both ends. Now if Jose comes in and is the backup i'm fine with that and i think if Valanciunas comes off the bench Calderon would be great for him.

Grover 07-09-2012 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EggsToTheBBQ (Post 668096)
then I think that Lowry's defense and driving to the basket would outweigh his shortcomings as a passer, and in that situation he'd be the better fit.

Shortcomings as a passer? what shortcomings exactly? as far as I can tell the guy is a great distributer and a tripple double threat ever night.

Maybe his shot is a little suspect at times but his passing? :scratchchin:

carp 07-09-2012 12:41 PM

It may be time to move both Ed and Amir.... without Jose here to spoonfeed them, they're going to look brutal on the offensive end!

Lowry and Jose are in the same tier, but I think Lowry will help more in the 4th Q while others may struggle a little without Jose's steadying influence. Neither is going to be a worldbeater.

EggsToTheBBQ 07-09-2012 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grover (Post 668102)
Shortcomings as a passer? what shortcomings exactly? as far as I can tell the guy is a great distributer and a tripple double threat ever night.

Maybe his shot is a little suspect at times but his passing? :scratchchin:

Raptors Republic just posted a video breakdown of Lowry running the pick and roll this morning.

Go take a look and see what you think.

To me it looks ugly.

http://raptorsrepublic.com/2012/07/0...-roll-synergy/

jeffb 07-09-2012 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAPMAN (Post 668098)
When we had the PG tandem of Jose & TJ or Jose & Jack, we were in the playoffs or fighting for the playoffs. Instead of complaining who is better, enjoy having 2 starting calibre point guards. Its an advantage, not a disadvantage.

It's a disadvantage imo. Sorry but both of those situations were difficult at times because Jose supporters would complain when he was coming off the bench and vice versa.


When the starter/backup roles are the least bit muddled it usually doesn't end well and you don't have to look too far for proof of that. Let's face it before TJ Ford was hurt in Atlanta he was outplaying Jose and at the very least they were on par with each other overall, same with Jack in 2009-10 when we won 28 of 36 i believe when he started and we were 5th in the conference just behind Boston at the end of February. Now imo Lowry is better than Jose and no way do you aquire him and not start him knowing one of his beefs in Houston was not getting enough playing time after coming back from injury at the end of the year.

Now unless Jose plays some SG and they're on the floor together at times, which would seem to be difficult due to the glut at that position now then i just don't see it working. In a perfect world Jose would play 20mpg and help Jonas off the bench, but something tells me the same old shit will rear it's ugly head when it comes to the PG position this season with both here.

jeffb 07-09-2012 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 668105)

Lowry and Jose are in the same tier,

See i say Lowry is a notch above just based on defense alone. Defense at that position is invaluable and not that easy to find.

snark 07-09-2012 12:52 PM

Lowry pushes for a quicker pace. Jose is more of a half court PG.

How does Casey want this team to play?

carp 07-09-2012 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 668113)
See i say Lowry is a notch above just based on defense alone. Defense at that position is invaluable and not that easy to find.

the notch above or below is minimal if anything at all. Jose gets others involved better, Lowry can get into chuck-mode at times. I'd say he's better, but I think the tier is the same. Lowry at the top, Jose at the bottom..... but when you look around the league, there are many others that you'd probably rather have and many younger ones that you'll soon wish for instead.

jeffb 07-09-2012 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snark (Post 668114)
Lowry pushes for a quicker pace. Jose is more of a half court PG.

How does Casey want this team to play?

As of after the season he wants to push things more. Now imo as i said Jose would be nice off the bench for a change of pace and could certainly help Valanciunas and the second unit. I just don't know how that works long term.

jeffb 07-09-2012 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 668116)
the notch above or below is minimal if anything at all. Jose gets others involved better, Lowry can get into chuck-mode at times. I'd say he's better, but I think the tier is the same. Lowry at the top, Jose at the bottom..... but when you look around the league, there are many others that you'd probably rather have and many younger ones that you'll soon wish for instead.

Meeehhhhh, that's the way it always is. We always want better and younger. But i personally have had enough of jose and his over dribbling and shit D, which yes is still crap even if slightly improved last season. We've gone nowhere with Calderon and that includes him playing with an all-star big.

snark 07-09-2012 01:04 PM

I think Lowry should have every chance to prove he can be the starter, otherwise why give up a protected pick? Plus, his defence could be like Bayless' who could at least hound the other teams PG, even if his distribution skills were lacking. Lowry is a better distributor. And don't forget the name Tu Holloway- he'll surprise.

Superjudge 07-09-2012 01:04 PM

I will wait to see Lowry in a Jersey playing a meaningful game first, because those vids can make people look great or bad depending upon the bias.

A few myths about Calderon however:

1. Calderon cannot run the break. This is ridiculous, he actually run it well.
2. Jose Calderon isn't tough. Really? Not tough? Only Raptor to rally stand up to guys like Chris Paul, Kevin Garnett, etc. Jose is actually one of the more gritty players on that team.
3. Calderon over dribbles. again, this is Ludicrous. Calderon has set plays he has to run, time and time again the stiffs he plays with fuck these up, you can see it...everything from forgetting what to do, to setting absolutely horrible and useless ghost picks. I suppose if he just jacked it up more in these situations he'd be better, but that's the only concession I'll make here.

Ball Don't Lie 07-09-2012 01:08 PM

Troll poster posts troll thread.

Lowry is in the 2nd tier of PGs in the NBA when healthy. Calderon is in the 3rd of 4th tier.

There is no comparison.

Superjudge 07-09-2012 01:10 PM

really?


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