Lowry/Lucas combo at the Point not ideal
Old 02-14-2013, 07:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Raptors Lowry/Lucas combo at the Point not ideal

Since the Raps traded Jose and promoted Lowry as their new starting guard, I cant help but notice a loss of facilitating ball movement from the PG position. It seems to me that Lowry/Lucas, are streaky shooters but feel the need to constantly shoot and not pass around the ball to set up others. I think this shoot first think later mentality could hurt the Raptors down the home stretch this season. They put up too many 3's and dont move the ball around to get clean looks as much now as when they had Jose. Coach needs to get into these guys and stop this mentality before it hurts the teams chances
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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lucas maybe, but lowry? dear lord... it's like we've forgotten how to watch basketball.. just because we don't run a pick and roll EVERY SINGLE PLAY doesn't mean he's not distributing
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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thats fair to say I definitly agree that I may be overly harsh with Lowry. I just feel like he takes too many forced shots and often doesnt look to create plays by driving to the net. Id like to see him look for his shot when its there or he gets an open feed
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tkwod5 View Post
thats fair to say I definitly agree that I may be overly harsh with Lowry. I just feel like he takes too many forced shots and often doesnt look to create plays by driving to the net. Id like to see him look for his shot when its there or he gets an open feed
his driving will be back to normal once his foot heals up. next season we'll be seeing something similar to the lowry in houston. for now he has done a good job limping on one leg through games. I don't mind him stepping up and taking open threes because he's a great shooter. less pnr is on casey, not lowry
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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wow, the double standard continues.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:41 PM   #6 (permalink)
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wow, the double standard continues.
please enlighten us sherlock by stating points instead of remarks that add nothing to the discussion
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Since the Raps traded Jose and promoted Lowry as their new starting guard, I cant help but notice a loss of facilitating ball movement from the PG position. It seems to me that Lowry/Lucas, are streaky shooters but feel the need to constantly shoot and not pass around the ball to set up others. I think this shoot first think later mentality could hurt the Raptors down the home stretch this season. They put up too many 3's and dont move the ball around to get clean looks as much now as when they had Jose. Coach needs to get into these guys and stop this mentality before it hurts the teams chances
You do realize that Lowry and Calderon have very similar FGs/game as starters? Lowry takes 10.6 FGA per game in 31:23 as a starter while Calderon is at 10.1 in 31:36.

You do realize that Lowry is only averaging 9 FGA/game since the trade for Rudy Gay and the most shots he's taken in a game is 12? And before last night, he had 45 assists in 5 games?

And you do realize that with the addition of Rudy Gay the team has gone to a lot more isolation?

While Lucas is definitely a shoot-first PG, I don't think you can say the same with Lowry. The team's offensive philosophy has also changed a deal. Another thing to note - since the trade, the team is giving up 93.6 ppg, which is way down from their season average of 99.1. Meanwhile, the team is scoring 99.3 ppg, which is above the 97.7 ppg average they have on the season.

And in these 7 games, only one game was against a team below .500 - New Orleans. They have played the Knicks, Celtics, Clippers, Nuggets, Heat, and Pacers.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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please enlighten us sherlock by stating points instead of remarks that add nothing to the discussion
It's already been elaborated on by me and various others on here since Lowry came back from his injuries. There is some strange myth that Lowry takes a lot of shots, is selfish, etc. The guys takes - what? 10 - 12 shots/game which is not a lot. The guy is always looking to pass and when he only does/did that people complain that the guys doesn't shoot enough, has no passion, etc. It's not a surprise that this was made as soon as lowry had a bad apg game. The league has moved away from "pure" or "traditional" pgs. The only old-school pgs who've won the title recently are: a young Rondo, Kidd, arguably Billups and that's it. The ability to break down defenses and attack the rim can't be ignored (which in effect leads to kicking it out or passing it to a big). Lowry is a solid choice to play fast break offense with DD and Gay. Not to mention the fact that KL, much like Amir are warriors- they are playing through injuries every game.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You do realize that Lowry and Calderon have very similar FGs/game as starters? Lowry takes 10.6 FGA per game in 31:23 as a starter while Calderon is at 10.1 in 31:36.

You do realize that Lowry is only averaging 9 FGA/game since the trade for Rudy Gay and the most shots he's taken in a game is 12? And before last night, he had 45 assists in 5 games?

And you do realize that with the addition of Rudy Gay the team has gone to a lot more isolation?

While Lucas is definitely a shoot-first PG, I don't think you can say the same with Lowry. The team's offensive philosophy has also changed a deal. Another thing to note - since the trade, the team is giving up 93.6 ppg, which is way down from their season average of 99.1. Meanwhile, the team is scoring 99.3 ppg, which is above the 97.7 ppg average they have on the season.

And in these 7 games, only one game was against a team below .500 - New Orleans. They have played the Knicks, Celtics, Clippers, Nuggets, Heat, and Pacers.
Great points man. I definitly do agree with both of you guys in the sense that Lucas is more of a concern that Lowry in terms of shoot-first mentality. However I was not aware that Lowry actually averaged 45 assts in his last 5 games prior to the last one. However I did also notice that the Raptors are not sharing the ball quite as much. Specifically, in last nights game the raps only had 12 assists and also a low number in the previous game. When Jose was running the point the raps were easily in the 20-25 range and sometimes pushing 30. With that in mind the raps are playing their best ball of the season so I commend them on that and hope this keeps up when they get the call back to Washington DC
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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And let's look how the opposing teams' starting PGs have fared since Lowry was inserted as the starter:

Eric Bledsoe - 4-13, 10 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 turnovers
Mario Chalmers - 1-6, 2 points, 2 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 turnover
Courtney Lee - 6-11, 15 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 0 turnovers
George Hill - 3-8, 9 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 turnovers
Gervais Vasquez - 7-11, 17 points, 6 rebounds, 7 assists, 3 turnovers
Ty Lawson - 12-20, 29 points, 1 rebound, 9 assists, 2 turnovers
Raymond Felton - 3-9, 16 points, 4 rebounds, 5 assists, 4 turnovers.

Only Lawson went off while Lowry did more than contain the opposing PGs.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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You do realize that Lowry and Calderon have very similar FGs/game as starters? Lowry takes 10.6 FGA per game in 31:23 as a starter while Calderon is at 10.1 in 31:36.

You do realize that Lowry is only averaging 9 FGA/game since the trade for Rudy Gay and the most shots he's taken in a game is 12? And before last night, he had 45 assists in 5 games?

And you do realize that with the addition of Rudy Gay the team has gone to a lot more isolation?

While Lucas is definitely a shoot-first PG, I don't think you can say the same with Lowry. The team's offensive philosophy has also changed a deal. Another thing to note - since the trade, the team is giving up 93.6 ppg, which is way down from their season average of 99.1. Meanwhile, the team is scoring 99.3 ppg, which is above the 97.7 ppg average they have on the season.

And in these 7 games, only one game was against a team below .500 - New Orleans. They have played the Knicks, Celtics, Clippers, Nuggets, Heat, and Pacers.
+1

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Old 02-14-2013, 07:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
You do realize that Lowry and Calderon have very similar FGs/game as starters? Lowry takes 10.6 FGA per game in 31:23 as a starter while Calderon is at 10.1 in 31:36.

You do realize that Lowry is only averaging 9 FGA/game since the trade for Rudy Gay and the most shots he's taken in a game is 12? And before last night, he had 45 assists in 5 games?

And you do realize that with the addition of Rudy Gay the team has gone to a lot more isolation?

While Lucas is definitely a shoot-first PG, I don't think you can say the same with Lowry. The team's offensive philosophy has also changed a deal. Another thing to note - since the trade, the team is giving up 93.6 ppg, which is way down from their season average of 99.1. Meanwhile, the team is scoring 99.3 ppg, which is above the 97.7 ppg average they have on the season.

And in these 7 games, only one game was against a team below .500 - New Orleans. They have played the Knicks, Celtics, Clippers, Nuggets, Heat, and Pacers.

/Stupid thread
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It's already been elaborated on by me and various others on here since Lowry came back from his injuries. There is some strange myth that Lowry takes a lot of shots, is selfish, etc. The guys takes - what? 10 - 12 shots/game which is not a lot. The guy is always looking to pass and when he only does/did that people complain that the guys doesn't shoot enough, has no passion, etc. It's not a surprise that this was made as soon as lowry had a bad apg game. The league has moved away from "pure" or "traditional" pgs. The only old-school pgs who've won the title recently are: a young Rondo, Kidd, arguably Billups and that's it. The ability to break down defenses and attack the rim can't be ignored (which in effect leads to kicking it out or passing it to a big). Lowry is a solid choice to play fast break offense with DD and Gay. Not to mention the fact that KL, much like Amir are warriors- they are playing through injuries every game.

good. I agree with you. I thought you were an ocho fanboy.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Great points man. I definitly do agree with both of you guys in the sense that Lucas is more of a concern that Lowry in terms of shoot-first mentality. However I was not aware that Lowry actually averaged 45 assts in his last 5 games prior to the last one. However I did also notice that the Raptors are not sharing the ball quite as much. Specifically, in last nights game the raps only had 12 assists and also a low number in the previous game. When Jose was running the point the raps were easily in the 20-25 range and sometimes pushing 30. With that in mind the raps are playing their best ball of the season so I commend them on that and hope this keeps up when they get the call back to Washington DC
First of all, I made a mistake in my calculations. Lowry is only averaging 7.7 FGA since the trade. If anything, that's too low. He was also averaging 7.5 assists per game before yesterday (now at 6.6) in the 7 games.

Anyway, the biggest change is the offensive philosophy. With Gay, we are seeing a lot more isolation. If anyone needs to adjust his game, it's Gay. He needs to give up the ball move often and more quickly. While he's the focal point of the offence, he also has to get his teammates involved or they get start standing still and just watch him work. Hopefully Casey and his staff make this adjustment during the break, using Gay on some pick-and-rolls and getting more movement when he penetrates, so that he has an outlet or two to dish the ball.

And finally, the results are there. Besides being 5-2 since the trade, the offensive production is actually slightly higher while points allowed is way down. The Raptors had nearly a -3 ppg differential before the trade. Since the trade, they have a +6 point differential. And it's not like the team has been playing cream puffs.

Last edited by Northern Neighbour; 02-14-2013 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Dude is shooting over 50 percent of his 3‘s at home. Over 40 percent away. He needs to take a few more of those. But the team needs to find him. When he takes them early off his own dribble it usually means bad things.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:55 PM   #16 (permalink)
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we have to see how this team plays next season, with everybody healthy
I personally like the fact that lowry adjusted his game to try to fit what casey wants to do and has improved his attitude and shot selection greatly. Obviously, the guy is uber competitive and at times he will lose his temper at the wrong time, but I think we can live with that, even if it means losing 1 or 2 games a season, better than the opposite ...

On the other hand, despite trying, I don't feel like he has the elite point skills that Jose had, but then again, very few PGs do. Given his defense and rebounding, if he can keep things under control, he'll be a solid starter. He may not be quite as good as I hoped he will be, but he's still a great piece.

He may never be an all star, but neither was billups until they won a title, and he reminds me in some ways of chauncey. Journeyman, good 3pt shooter, not that great point skills but a tough defender.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Raptor Fans and point guards. Leaf Fans and goalies. Enuff already.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:02 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:26 PM   #19 (permalink)
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original post is right. Although Lowry doesn't shoot too much. His problem is that he, along with the whole gang, aren't doing much at all. They look like they are starting with high 1-4 only the big does jack shit all after his screen and the guys just fan out and run ISO's.

It isn't a disaster, but they are playing with fire.

Work in progress I think.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:57 AM   #20 (permalink)
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We all know that the point of attack starts with the point guard. If you disrupt the PG and delay him fore few seconds...the play could break. Lowry's pesky defense puts pressure on the guard rather than just wait for him to cross the half court line with ease (calderon's D). However, Lowry seems to gamble a lot even on offensive end (going for steals after a rebound) and that gives the opposing team a pg running a fast break. He is all over the place...sometimes it's good, sometimes it's harmful. But I'd rather have an active guard than a finesse one.
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