Lowry to the Knicks gaining heat again? - Page 3
Old 02-12-2014, 04:45 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Adrian Wojnarowski: Adds an executive with a team that's been a suitor of Kyle Lowry, "We've heard it from (Toronto) that he won't be moved." Twitter @WojYahooNBA
Looks like Lowry will end up finishing out the season here
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:01 PM   #42 (permalink)
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My argument was about whether the record since the trade is reflective of the team's talent level. So the over under I proposed wasn't out of nowhere - 19.5 of 31 games is .636, so I take the under on 19.5, considering I do not think that record means much, considering the play we've seen of late.
Ya sorry I read it wrong the first time and just saw the line as 19 and thought to saw a half game off.

Well if its not going to mess up your ability to cheer I'll take it for $20. Payable by email when I lose. I need to make back the $20 I paid to Torap the last time I made a really really really stupid bet on this forum.

But.. if MU trades Lowry, by next week all bets are off
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:04 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Suck it Isola.

This team has been fine. I don't get this idea of pointing to a supposed softer schedule. Fact is they beat some very good teams, just missed out on a couple other wins against big teams, wore themselves out a bit in the process, and in that mix hit some nagging injuries and a big road trip. They ran out of gas a little bit here and there. Now if they can't get back to the level of defense they need, once they get this break and a good stretch of home games with practice time, then there is room for some concern. But i've seen a team that is establishing an identity, and expect that to continue.
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:37 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Looks like Lowry will end up finishing out the season here
Way too early to say that, although i just can't see Lowry being dealt with us going to the playoffs.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:27 PM   #45 (permalink)
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The Raptors go 8-7 in the midst of giong 21-12 overall and some suggest we should be on the tipping point of blowing it up??
nobody suggested anything of the sorts
the main question is which is the real team, so far we had 3 different versions, the pre gay, the post gay december/jan and the jan/feb. We've been mediocre, good and average respectively. Each stretch was pretty short, yet long enough to not be dismissed easily like those 3-5 stretches you give as examples.

And record is not even that relevant in those stretches. Last 15 games or so we haven't been playing well. Lots of games that we won were won because we were able to put together 1-2 quarters of really good basketball.

Right now there is NO QUESTION that we can play at a fairly high level, the only question is can we do it consistently. Because we have nowhere near the talent that Miami/OKC/Indiana and the other contenders do. If we can't play with high intensity most of the time, we're not going to be more than a game or two over .500 which is basically the no man's land masai was fearing.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:17 PM   #46 (permalink)
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nobody suggested anything of the sorts
the main question is which is the real team, so far we had 3 different versions, the pre gay, the post gay december/jan and the jan/feb. We've been mediocre, good and average respectively. Each stretch was pretty short, yet long enough to not be dismissed easily like those 3-5 stretches you give as examples.

And record is not even that relevant in those stretches. Last 15 games or so we haven't been playing well. Lots of games that we won were won because we were able to put together 1-2 quarters of really good basketball.

Right now there is NO QUESTION that we can play at a fairly high level, the only question is can we do it consistently. Because we have nowhere near the talent that Miami/OKC/Indiana and the other contenders do. If we can't play with high intensity most of the time, we're not going to be more than a game or two over .500 which is basically the no man's land masai was fearing.
I honestly never get you. We are 13-9 in Jan/feb with the majority of games on the road (please stop discoutning this), our last west coast swing in there, 4 back to backs with the 2nd game against 3 difficult teams, through injuries to DD, Lowry and Amir, on a team just getting accustomed to being good and learning what happens when you do not put the peddle down and this is average to you? Or is the mediocre the last 10 with 7 on the roads? If you think this team, as is, with no injuries goes back to 6 and 13 you're really just too pessimistic (and I'm a natural pessimist). How has any part of this team shown you its going to be a +- .500 team since the Gay trade? Do you think every team wins 3-4 quarters always btw? NO. Its been half a year since we sucked balls and you can't see mostly positives in whats going on?
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:30 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I'm not sure what stance is the poker face and what stance isn't, but if we do keep Lowry we better cough up the dollars to keep him.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:49 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Ya sorry I read it wrong the first time and just saw the line as 19 and thought to saw a half game off.

Well if its not going to mess up your ability to cheer I'll take it for $20. Payable by email when I lose. I need to make back the $20 I paid to Torap the last time I made a really really really stupid bet on this forum.

But.. if MU trades Lowry, by next week all bets are off
No money, but you can say I was wrong. That's worth millions right there!
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:41 AM   #49 (permalink)
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No money, but you can say I was wrong. That's worth millions right there!
Bummer .. all right but someone is getting called out at year end!
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:50 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Could the real team be the one that wins rather handily mostly, and loses mostly fairly close competitive games, with an overall point differential approaching 3 points per game and somewhat higher than that post-Rudy?
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:06 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Could the real team be the one that wins rather handily mostly, and loses mostly fairly close competitive games, with an overall point differential approaching 3 points per game and somewhat higher than that post-Rudy?
The problem is the number of loses to poor teams.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:28 AM   #52 (permalink)
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The problem is the number of loses to poor teams.
Yeah, that happens to every team. The expectation to sweep every sub .500 team is a little out of whack. The other thing to keep in mind is the two Sophomores in the starting lineup. There are going to be ups and downs with that, but does that make projecting future success harder? I think it points to projecting even greater success, unless you have no faith in the growth of Jonas and Terrence.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:32 AM   #53 (permalink)
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The problem is the number of loses to poor teams.
The Raptors are 22-12 since the Gay trade. What more do people want? They're going to lose games to all teams, including those with bad records. And since the trade, how many losses have they suffered against "poor teams"? By my count, four - Boston, LA, and Charlotte (twice).

The other 8 losses - San Antonio (twice), LA Clippers (twice), Indiana, Miami, Portland, and Sacramento.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:36 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Bummer .. all right but someone is getting called out at year end!
I hope it's me!
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:38 AM   #55 (permalink)
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The Raptors are 22-12 since the Gay trade. What more do people want? They're going to lose games to all teams, including those with bad records. And since the trade, how many losses have they suffered against "poor teams"? By my count, four - Boston, LA, and Charlotte (twice).

The other 8 losses - San Antonio (twice), LA Clippers (twice), Indiana, Miami, Portland, and Sacramento.
Charlotte is a pretty good team. Tough losses that shouldn't have happened, but they deserve some credit.
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:53 AM   #56 (permalink)
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The Raptors are 22-12 since the Gay trade. What more do people want? They're going to lose games to all teams, including those with bad records. And since the trade, how many losses have they suffered against "poor teams"? By my count, four - Boston, LA, and Charlotte (twice).

The other 8 losses - San Antonio (twice), LA Clippers (twice), Indiana, Miami, Portland, and Sacramento.
Sacramento doesn't count as a poor team? They are last in the West, with the same record as LA.
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:20 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Charlotte is a pretty good team. Tough losses that shouldn't have happened, but they deserve some credit.
LX - Patrick's mask in your avy looks familiar. It reminded me of the Brujo from True Blood; but after a google image search it clearly isn't.
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:14 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Sacramento doesn't count as a poor team? They are last in the West, with the same record as LA.
Sacramento is a better team than their record. They're 8-12 against the East.

But even if you add them to the list of "poor teams" they've lost to, it's only 5 out of 12. In other words, people are completely overreacting over a few losses. If it was a running theme, then maybe people would have an argument.
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:43 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Sacramento is a better team than their record. They're 8-12 against the East.

But even if you add them to the list of "poor teams" they've lost to, it's only 5 out of 12. In other words, people are completely overreacting over a few losses. If it was a running theme, then maybe people would have an argument.
Yeah, but this recent bad stretch (about .500 against mostly bad teams) is about as long a stretch as the good stretch (15 games versus 18 games) that all the optimism is built on. So shouldn't the same logic be applicable to that stretch as well? Except that stretch is less recent.

Oh, and 8-12 against the terrible, terrible east is really bad. Really really bad.
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Old 02-13-2014, 01:14 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I honestly never get you. We are 13-9 in Jan/feb with the majority of games on the road (please stop discoutning this), our last west coast swing in there, 4 back to backs with the 2nd game against 3 difficult teams, through injuries to DD, Lowry and Amir, on a team just getting accustomed to being good and learning what happens when you do not put the peddle down and this is average to you? Or is the mediocre the last 10 with 7 on the roads? If you think this team, as is, with no injuries goes back to 6 and 13 you're really just too pessimistic (and I'm a natural pessimist). How has any part of this team shown you its going to be a +- .500 team since the Gay trade? Do you think every team wins 3-4 quarters always btw? NO. Its been half a year since we sucked balls and you can't see mostly positives in whats going on?
the majority of the games on the road, do you mean the majority of 1 (11-12 H/A in jan/feb)?

Are you purposely missing the key points, or just didnt' bother to read and felt like replying? I clearly mentioned in many of the posts on this topic that there is a clear difference between december/early january and jan/feb. Our level of play in the second half of january and february has clearly decreased, you are not going to dispute that, are you? I've also, very clearly, said several times that injuries are probably a factor.

Since january 15th we've lost 4 games to bad to very bad teams, we've only won one game against over .500 teams, and that team was missing its superstar (Nowitzki). We allowed teams like Charlotte to lead us by 30+ points, we are almost always falling behind badly after the 1st quarter/half, our defense has slipped dramatically (especially given the below average competition). In short, the team I've seen since January 15th onward is very different than the team I've seen after gay left.

I think it's fairly reasonable (and not pessmistic in the least) to question which is the real Toronto Raptors. I've also said multiple times that the upcoming stretch, post all star, should provide a more conclusive answer, because there won't be anymore excuses such as injuries and fatigue. We will be going through a critical stretch, with 4 out of 8 games against direct competitors for the 3rd spot. We've started on the right foot last night, let's hope for the best.

There is a major difference if we finish with 46+ wins and 3rd seed and win or be very competitive in a playoff round, or 40-42 wins and a 6th-8th seed and a quick elimination. It's the difference between a team that should be dismantled and one that is worth trying to tweak. As of right now, we are on pace for 47 wins. Hopefully, after the next couple of weeks we keep that pace or improve it.
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