Lowry to the Knicks gaining heat again? - Page 2
Old 02-12-2014, 10:31 AM   #21 (permalink)
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The reality is, we are already there. 3rd in the East doesn't mean much when you are barely over .500. This team has to go on quite a tear for the rest of the season to end up with a record worth building on, and based on their recent play (against some pretty subpar competition) I don't see it happening.
Reality is we're 21-12 since trading rudy gay which is good enough for a 52-30 record projected over an 82 game season.

Why are people so quick to dismiss success as soon as we go 2-3 on a west coast road trip?
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:54 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Reality is we're 21-12 since trading rudy gay which is good enough for a 52-30 record projected over an 82 game season.

Why are people so quick to dismiss success as soon as we go 2-3 on a west coast road trip?
Yeah, on the strength of a 13-5 stretch. Since that 13-5 stretch, we're 8-7 against some pretty crappy teams (lost to the Celtics, Lakers, Bobcats, and Kings) with our biggest win coming against, who, the Mavs? The Wolves? Maybe the Nets? All .500 teams.

Reality is, if the team keeps playing like they have the past 10 games or so (in which time they've had the 23rd ranked defense), we're looking at more .500 ball, not a 52 win quality team.

Here's a fun idea. 21-12 is a winning percentage of .636. That winning percentage works out to 19.5-11.5 for the rest of the season. The team has one of the easiest schedules in the league for the rest of the year.

What do you think? 19-12 or worse? Or 20-11 or better? I'll take 19 wins or less from here out. Do you really believe this is a .636 team?
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:06 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Beating the Nets on the road when they were 10-1 in their previous 10 games was a big win. Taking care of business against the Wolves and Pelicans at home are also solid victories.

If you can go 8-7 while playing poor basketball, that's imo is the sign of a good team. The Pacers and OKC just lost to the Magic, the Heat just lost to the Jazz. Fact remains that the team's performance as a whole, rather than breaking it out into pieces and reacting to the most recent streak, is 21-12. Solid basketball.

Why would you take 19 wins or less? It's more fun to cheer for them.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:10 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Yeah, on the strength of a 13-5 stretch. Since that 13-5 stretch, we're 8-7 against some pretty crappy teams (lost to the Celtics, Lakers, Bobcats, and Kings) with our biggest win coming against, who, the Mavs? The Wolves? Maybe the Nets? All .500 teams.

Reality is, if the team keeps playing like they have the past 10 games or so (in which time they've had the 23rd ranked defense), we're looking at more .500 ball, not a 52 win quality team.

Here's a fun idea. 21-12 is a winning percentage of .636. That winning percentage works out to 19.5-11.5 for the rest of the season. The team has one of the easiest schedules in the league for the rest of the year.

What do you think? 19-12 or worse? Or 20-11 or better? I'll take 19 wins or less from here out. Do you really believe this is a .636 team?
Well considering we are also 11 and 7 in our last 18 (which doesn't include that stretch) and that is exactly 0.636 too...I'll take 18.5 or more if you want to take less. If we trade Lowry prior to the deadline all bets are off! Its a sucker bet for me to take...You call it.

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Why would you take 19 wins or less? It's more fun to cheer for them.
He's right.. betting is silly.

Last edited by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu; 02-12-2014 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:16 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Yeah, on the strength of a 13-5 stretch. Since that 13-5 stretch, we're 8-7 against some pretty crappy teams (lost to the Celtics, Lakers, Bobcats, and Kings) with our biggest win coming against, who, the Mavs? The Wolves? Maybe the Nets? All .500 teams.

Reality is, if the team keeps playing like they have the past 10 games or so (in which time they've had the 23rd ranked defense), we're looking at more .500 ball, not a 52 win quality team.

Here's a fun idea. 21-12 is a winning percentage of .636. That winning percentage works out to 19.5-11.5 for the rest of the season. The team has one of the easiest schedules in the league for the rest of the year.

What do you think? 19-12 or worse? Or 20-11 or better? I'll take 19 wins or less from here out. Do you really believe this is a .636 team?
I predicted 17-14 a couple days ago, good for 44 wins. I say 18-13 is the best we can likely expect. All expectations could change though depending on what is done or not done at the deadline.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:25 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Even if we go 16-15, that is 37-27 since the Gay trade, which is 47-35 projected over a 82 game season. Pretty solid for a young up and coming team in the East.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:34 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I hope this team has a greater winning %age than the 8th place team in the WC when all is said and done.

I had hoped that the raps would finally get a 50 win season; but those losses against LAL, BOS, SAK and CHA have hurt the teams chances.

27-24 at the moment. The team would need to go 23-8 the rest of the way aka a .7419 winning percentage the rest of the way. If the team was 31-20 atm 50 wins would've been a lot more likely as the team would need to go 19-12 the rest of the way.

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Old 02-12-2014, 12:28 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Beating the Nets on the road when they were 10-1 in their previous 10 games was a big win. Taking care of business against the Wolves and Pelicans at home are also solid victories.

If you can go 8-7 while playing poor basketball, that's imo is the sign of a good team. The Pacers and OKC just lost to the Magic, the Heat just lost to the Jazz. Fact remains that the team's performance as a whole, rather than breaking it out into pieces and reacting to the most recent streak, is 21-12. Solid basketball.

Why would you take 19 wins or less? It's more fun to cheer for them.
Yes, beating the Nets was a big win. Of course, they were just hot, not necessarily really a good team (note their 3-4 record since that game). Taking care of business at home against two under 500 teams is a big deal to you?

My point was that the team is not playing poorly, so much as closer to expectations, rather than exceeding expectations by so much earlier on.

And I cheer all out for every win. But in terms of actual rational thought, I predict 19 wins or less.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:32 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Even if we go 16-15, that is 37-27 since the Gay trade, which is 47-35 projected over a 82 game season. Pretty solid for a young up and coming team in the East.
Yes, but again, can you project that? If the bulk of the season is the team playing 500 ball against a weak schedule, and the record is boosted by possibly an unrepeatable stretch of amazing play, why would you project the teams' fortunes and overall talent level going forward as a 47 win team rather than a 500 team?

If the team can normalize their play to wher they are winning about 57% of their games the rest of the way (18-13) or better, maybe there's something to get excited about, considering the potential for improvement due to the youth of the team. Mind you, against the soft schedule they have coming up, that should be the minimum expected if they are really a group worth getting excited about.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:34 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Well considering we are also 11 and 7 in our last 18 (which doesn't include that stretch) and that is exactly 0.636 too...I'll take 18.5 or more if you want to take less. If we trade Lowry prior to the deadline all bets are off! Its a sucker bet for me to take...You call it.

Edit;

He's right.. betting is silly.
My argument was about whether the record since the trade is reflective of the team's talent level. So the over under I proposed wasn't out of nowhere - 19.5 of 31 games is .636, so I take the under on 19.5, considering I do not think that record means much, considering the play we've seen of late.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:33 PM   #31 (permalink)
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And I cheer all out for every win. But in terms of actual rational thought, I predict 19 wins or less.
This.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:33 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Even if we go 16-15, that is 37-27 since the Gay trade, which is 47-35 projected over a 82 game season. Pretty solid for a young up and coming team in the East.
but you can't do that kind of projection, because our schedule was very difficult early on.

I think the key point is that we don't know which team we are right now. The optimist can point to the december/early jan stretch where we were a top 10 in the league. Pessimist can point to the late jan/feb stretch where we've basically been a .500 team.

This is so critical because the team we saw in december is worth building on, the team we're seeing now is not. And injuries don't matter, because we can't expect to see another season like this one, we're by far an away the healthiest team in the league - massive outlier.

The next stretch should be defining and unfortunately, it will not end until after the trade deadline I think. Sucks for masai who probably has to make a major decision on lowry.
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:17 PM   #33 (permalink)
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edited

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Old 02-12-2014, 02:40 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I think a 33 game stretch is fair enough to make that projection considering the number of road games we've played on the west coast. If anything that strength of schedule has been as harder or harder than what we having coming up; we played 9 games on the road in the West, played the Pacers twice, and the Heat once. Adjusting for any perceived strength or lack thereof would have minimal impact.

It's the same team; an 82 game season in any sport is full of ups and downs. You go through a few good streaks, and play .500 basketball the rest of the way and you're fighting for homecourt in the playoffs.

I'm not sure what you guys are expecting, but it's unreasonable. All teams have downs, and all teams lose to teams that are considered inferior;

Miami has gone through two stretches where they went 2-3, and 0-3.

Indiana has had two stretches where they went 2-3 and 2-3.

The Thunder had a stretch of going 3-5.

The Raptors have had two stretches of 1-3. Why hold the Raptors to expectations not even achieved by the best teams in the league?

The Raptors go 8-7 in the midst of giong 21-12 overall and some suggest we should be on the tipping point of blowing it up??
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:21 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 12m

Toronto has shown significant reluctance to part with Kyle Lowry, preferring to make a playoff run with him, league sources tell Yahoo.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:25 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Playoff run with Lowry as a farewell. I am pretty sure he won't be back and a S&T won't work either.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:32 PM   #37 (permalink)
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If you can go 8-7 while playing poor basketball, that's imo is the sign of a good team.
Playing poor basketball over 15 games is never the sign of a good team.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:34 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Playoff run with Lowry as a farewell. I am pretty sure he won't be back and a S&T won't work either.
If we keep him, my only hope is for a S+T to LAL for Nash and whoever they pick with their 2014 1st. Not many other S+T destination possibilities.

He might also re-sign, so there is that, but you've got to be careful of price.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:43 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Does anyone else follow Kevin Bryant/Rashidi on Twitter? Claims to be a Raptors insider and just spends his days ripping on any reporter (Woj/Ford) for even THINKING that the Raps are in trade talks.

Anyway, I don't see Lowry moved. Masai likely wants to much.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:46 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Playing poor basketball over 15 games is never the sign of a good team.
Meh - choice of words. The point is all teams in the league have stretches where they are struggling to play their best basketball, the good teams find ways to pull out wins during those stretches and keep their head above water. That's what the Raptors are doing and that's why they have a chance with 5 of their 7 next games at home to push themselves further ahead of Atlanta/Chicago et al into that 3rd spot.
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