Lowry expected to be traded in 24hours - Page 6
Old 06-28-2012, 03:57 AM   #101 (permalink)
playoffs please dont end

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DSWC maybe I define intangible somewhat different. We know and expect things that Nash would bring, there is nothing new he can add. Quick pace, inflated scoring from mediocre players, leadership - these are all tangibles

Oh and he got 8th All-Star ticket this year but really it should have been Lowry.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:23 AM   #102 (permalink)
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DSWC maybe I define intangible somewhat different. We know and expect things that Nash would bring, there is nothing new he can add. Quick pace, inflated scoring from mediocre players, leadership - these are all tangibles

Oh and he got 8th All-Star ticket this year but really it should have been Lowry.
Perhaps that was just semantics, but let me point out a few would be "extras" that are not immediately apparent, seeing as though that's what i think you're talking about with a potential Nash signing:

Firstly, we get some sense of national pride that was seen at the Vancouver olympics. Having Nash sign with the Raps -even a few years too late - coupled with Magloire's signing shows future Canadians that it's a good thing to sign with your "home town/country" team. With so many up and coming big-time Canadians, this could play a huge role in the future. We have had countless Americans bolt back to the states after their contracts, but signing a former MVP may help set the precedence that these guys should sign here. (perhaps wishful thinking, but maybe somebody like Wiggins signs here in his prime). This isn't only a move for now, but with Nash being the GM of Canada basketball, maybe that would finally give us an advantage that was previously a disincentive for players to sign here.

Another unseen positive (with the D'antoni system or in this case with Nash) is that it DOES inflate offensive stats. Yes, this is tangible, but with a league that is so focused on (primarily offensive) stats, this could ridiculously inflate players X's stats, which could be used as a net gain in potential trades. People talk about DeRozan's struggles this year, but he put up similar numbers with a MUCH slower pace. If Nash can "inflate" somebody's stats where we can get positive value for him (in a trade for instance) - then I think that that is another hidden positive potential with signing Nash.

And potentially the biggest intangible (or at least in the sense that you're using it) is the financial gains that MLSE would make. Would Steve Nash be a cash-cow for MLSE? You're damn right he would. A couple years of making huge financial gains with Nash here (hopefully coupled with on-court success) may lead to MLSE being open to spending to put/keep a contender on the court. Nash has the unique opportunity to help put the Raptors back on the NBA map. He will help the team on the court, but off of the court as well. Casual fans will buy jerseys, and help fill the stands on nights where they may have otherwise been empty. A couple years of those kinds of net gains (pun intended) and I can see Nash's signing here having a massive effect lasting for years longer than his on-court services.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:32 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Here is another possible draft day trade that could bring Lowry to Toronto:




David Locke@Lockedonsports


Reports Houston is offering #16 and Kyle Lowry to Toronto for #8 - if Jazz had gotten lucky they would have #8 would u do deal as Utah?

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Old 06-28-2012, 04:38 AM   #104 (permalink)
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DSWC thanks, I agree with everything but... none of it has to do with getting to the playoffs next season

#16 and Lowry for #8 is best case scenario for us. Need to take it and run.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:48 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Yeah I could see Colangelo pulling that trade off. I guess they just want to be certain that someone like Drummond or Lillard aren't still on the board. This is a good deal for us as Lowry has a cap friendly contract: 5.75 and 6.2 milllion for the next two years and it also provides us with a pick to acquire a good rotation player. It would even be more better if we could somehow sneak in Amir's contract, but highly unlikely.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:51 AM   #106 (permalink)
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It's also too bad that we can't talk to Nash until July 1 to get a better idea of where he's headed. If he does happen to sign with us we could move that pick to possibly acquire another asset. But if those guys aren't available at 8 not bad trading for Lowry and the 16th. Even if Nash comes here, we could still trade Lowry for another asset. Possibly a package of Lowry and DeRozan for Evans. We would have Nash, Evans, T jones, AB, VAL and still another 15 million to spend on free agents to round out our roster after amnestying Calderon.

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:08 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Barnes, or may be lillard?
May be, but I see Drummond too considering Colangelo once said he likes player with those physical qualities. And I'm scared of this possibility.
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Old 06-28-2012, 06:15 AM   #108 (permalink)
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I think that BC is waiting to see if MKG or Barnes is available at #8. If not, then the deal is on.

Then move Calderon (or Bayless in S&T) for a wing


PS Signing Nash now reminds me of other veterans that end up in TO at the end of their career. Oakley, Antonio Davis, Olajuwon, J O'neal... Mike James...
Some of them worked out well enough, but the effect was temporary
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Old 06-28-2012, 06:27 AM   #109 (permalink)
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I think that BC is waiting to see if MKG or Barnes is available at #8. If not, then the deal is on.
MKG won't be for sure. Maybe Barnes, but maybe the best F available will be Henson (who's maybe not what we need).

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Old 06-28-2012, 06:46 AM   #110 (permalink)
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next best available SF will be Ross and Harkless, one of them will definitely be available at #16
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Old 06-28-2012, 06:49 AM   #111 (permalink)
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PS Signing Nash now reminds me of other veterans that end up in TO at the end of their career. Oakley, Antonio Davis, Olajuwon, J O'neal... Mike James...
Some of them worked out well enough, but the effect was temporary
None of those players makes your players better.
Nash does that.
It's not even close.
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Old 06-28-2012, 07:42 AM   #112 (permalink)
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next best available SF will be Ross and Harkless, one of them will definitely be available at #16
I'd prefer Harkless of the 2 but don't sleep on Draymond Green,he was a stud at Michigan State and could be a nice player for Toronto like Morris Peterson was for years on the Raptors
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Old 06-28-2012, 07:54 AM   #113 (permalink)
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next best available SF will be Ross and Harkless, one of them will definitely be available at #16
Giddy up! 8th for Lowry and 16th
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:21 AM   #114 (permalink)
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nah they need to give us 12 or 14, 16 is too low
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:46 AM   #115 (permalink)
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I still want the 8th pick delt to memphis or philly for AI or Gay.

Then persue a point guard in free agency - Nash / Dragic

Still think thats the best option
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:09 AM   #116 (permalink)
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Gay is not on the market, AI would command more than #8, probably Ed and Demar must be included, so no.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:23 AM   #117 (permalink)
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Gay is not on the market, AI would command more than #8, probably Ed and Demar must be included, so no.
So no?

Throw in Ed or Demar...

AI is what this team needs...
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:24 AM   #118 (permalink)
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nah they need to give us 12 or 14, 16 is too low
They have 12, 16, 18. Not 14.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:47 AM   #119 (permalink)
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Could someone please get some advanced metrics in the mix?

My personal feeling is that Lowry before injury was more productive than Nash. His game is similar to Rondo. And he developed a killer jumpshot and is not afraid to use it.

Signing Nash is a PR move that everybody expects of us. The only intangible he would bring is his bad spine.

PG from the draft? Not funny. Takes time to develop even if you get lucky.
Some metrics are very hard to separate into parts of the season, but I can do a few, then compare the rest for the entire season.

Lowry (pre-March-12th-injury; full season indicated with *)
eFG%: .495
TS%: .564
3PT%: .388
PTS/36: 16.1
REB/36: 5.3
AST/36: 7.3
TO/36: 3.3
PER: 18.6
TRB%: 8.2*
AST%: 32.3*
TO%: 17.8*
ORTG: 111*
DRTG: 104*
Opp eFG%: .468*
Opp AST/36: 7.1*
Opp PER: 15.7*
WS/48: .157*

Nash
eFG%: .581
TS%: .625
3PT%: .390
PTS/36: 14.2
REB/36: 3.4
AST/36: 12.2
TO/36: 4.2
PER: 20.3
TRB%: 5.3
AST%: 53.1
TO%: 27.1
ORTG: 115
DRTG: 110
Opp eFG%: .479
Opp AST/36: 6.5
Opp PER: 13.6
WS/48: .144

Defense is very hard to capture, and especially to separate from team effect. I included DRTG, Opp eFG%, Opp AST/36 and Opp PER just for reference points. For team effect reference, PHX had an ORTG of 106.2, and a DRTG of 106.5. Houston had an ORTG of 105.5 and a DRTG of 105.2. Very similar team numbers, so the comparison shouldn't be too stretched.
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:25 AM   #120 (permalink)
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Stats don't mean everything. Nash makes everyone around him better... not just for the time being, but for the rest of their careers. Nash makes his teammates look like all-stars, you can't say that for Lowry.
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