Lots to like about Valanciunas - Page 4
Old 07-14-2011, 09:21 PM   #61 (permalink)
some creepy guy

Senior Member
 
MARTYNAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: far far away
Posts: 1,445
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sisibilio View Post
You're not alone. At least he was the only one who had been introduced to miss defense.
It was a shame that Rytas couldn't keep Jasikevicius for the whole season, i'm sure playiong along him would have made life much easier for Jonas.
True. Jonas was very efficient on boards and on offense. He actually sucked on D, we just talked about it, but at least he tried, gave up his hustle and was good at times. While Barjamovic doesn't even tried, he was straight garbage...
Jasikevicius went to Fenerbache to play in Final 4, but after all, finished his Euroleague season worse than Rytas ha
MARTYNAS is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2011, 09:33 PM   #62 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 4,794
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by js12 View Post
Nice scouting report. A bit concerned of post defense notes. He needs to build up his body during the next year and work on it. NBA centers love abusing rookies in the post. It's only going to get worse in the NBA with players like Dwight Howard.
Just as a comparison to be fair...JV may not become the defensive presence that Howard is however he is on pace, height and weight wise and definitely is as driven to win and get better as Howard is. The potential is there to get bigger and stronger, give it a couple years.

Jonas Valanciunas (6'11", 240 pounds) at 18 years old and is already 245


Dwight Howard (6'11", 240 pounds) at 18 years old....

Last edited by DocHoliday99; 07-14-2011 at 09:54 PM.
DocHoliday99 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2011, 09:46 PM   #63 (permalink)
censored

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,772
Representing:
Default

i hate face palms, but i really really really want to do it
dfunkie1 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2011, 09:52 PM   #64 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 4,794
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Filth View Post
i hate face palms, but i really really really want to do it
There should be a face palm for any post that keeps comparing JV to current established star C's in the NBA; who are much older. My only point is at least give JV a chance to establish himself as others have in the NBA. We are incredibly impatient, wanting results now.

Last edited by DocHoliday99; 07-14-2011 at 10:07 PM.
DocHoliday99 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2011, 10:07 PM   #65 (permalink)
some creepy guy

Senior Member
 
MARTYNAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: far far away
Posts: 1,445
Representing:
Default

Look at Dwight's hands. Oh my...

A lot of people compared Jonas' body to young Dwight... Just look how wild Jonas' shoulders are. He is very similar to Dwight when he was 18. Now Dwight is a freak, true, and noone expects Jonas to be as big as him. But he has plenty of room to get bigger. He shows good signs and hes not that skinny. Looks better than some at age 18...

MARTYNAS is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2011, 10:29 PM   #66 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,427
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
Just as a comparison to be fair...JV may not become the defensive presence that Howard is however he is on pace, height and weight wise and definitely is as driven to win and get better as Howard is. The potential is there to get bigger and stronger, give it a couple years.

Jonas Valanciunas (6'11", 240 pounds) at 18 years old and is already 245


Dwight Howard (6'11", 240 pounds) at 18 years old....
To be honest, if there's one guy in the draft who I could see growing into a freakish D12-ish body it's probably Biyombo....
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2011, 10:56 PM   #67 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,301
Representing:
Default

To me he reminds me of a young chris bosh, and some of that is obviously from having seen so much of bosh. I would hope he could retain a good bit of the quickness and athleticism, while adding some bulk and strength. If he keeps his knees in good shape then he could become the type of big that it looked like Bosh might become.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2011, 11:05 PM   #68 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 4,794
Representing:
Default

I don't know if he'll develop into a D12 body (probably not) or a Bosh body (God I hope not), but I do expect that JV will mature somewhere in the middle of the two.
DocHoliday99 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2011, 11:35 PM   #69 (permalink)
the boss

Senior Member
 
DonMughal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 4,282
Representing:
Default

That's crazy, I didn't know D12 was the same size.
DonMughal is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2011, 12:31 AM   #70 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,530
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
To me he reminds me of a young chris bosh, and some of that is obviously from having seen so much of bosh. I would hope he could retain a good bit of the quickness and athleticism, while adding some bulk and strength. If he keeps his knees in good shape then he could become the type of big that it looked like Bosh might become.
JV is bigger at 18 than Bosh is now, at 26. He's also a few cm taller. I believe Bosh was 205 when he came into the league, not much heavier than a PG ...

I don't see the comparison at all, Bosh has a wiry frame, it was clear from the beginning he will never be a big PF. JV seems to have a much wider frame and could easily get to 270+ when he gets older. He reminds me a lot more of AB than CB.
moremilk is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2011, 01:03 AM   #71 (permalink)
Raptors suck

Senior Member
 
tdotballing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: GTA
Posts: 727
Representing:
Default

To everyone who's saying "I hope he doesn't lose his quickness" ...This is a common misconception which is not true at all. Adding muscle DOES NOT make you slower. In fact adding muscle properly makes you faster.

This is why top 100 meter sprinters(some of the fastest people on earth) look like this:



tdotballing is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2011, 01:31 AM   #72 (permalink)
some creepy guy

Senior Member
 
MARTYNAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: far far away
Posts: 1,445
Representing:
Default

Yeah, Gay is a fit guy.
But you get it all wrong... Look, you talking about 100 meters sprinters here... Yes, upper body is important for sprinter to use his arms to derive additional power during the sprint.
But Muscle = weight. When you weight more, you lose quickness and stamina... We talking about 48 minutes, not 10 seconds run...

Now check out Marathon runners... It's the same as riding a horse. When you are heavier, you lose your stamina faster. It's simple mechanics...

Last edited by MARTYNAS; 07-15-2011 at 01:42 AM.
MARTYNAS is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2011, 03:37 AM   #73 (permalink)
Raptors suck

Senior Member
 
tdotballing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: GTA
Posts: 727
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTYNAS View Post
Yeah, Gay is a fit guy.
But you get it all wrong... Look, you talking about 100 meters sprinters here... Yes, upper body is important for sprinter to use his arms to derive additional power during the sprint.
But Muscle = weight. When you weight more, you lose quickness and stamina... We talking about 48 minutes, not 10 seconds run...
48 Minutes is the full game yes...Does this mean that the players are constantly sprinting at 100% effort for 48 minutes...NO..they are sprinting/giving full effort for a very small percentage of the actual game... "Quickness" is used in small bursts (e.g. driving in for a layup, Defending a fast break.. etc). From your post you make it seem that you think athletes built like sprinters can only run for 10 seconds and then they shut down or something...

To get a little technical: Sprinting and any activity related to quickness is an anaerobic activity, Marathon Running is an aerobic activity. Basketball is a series of anaerobic activities(e.g. Driving full force to the rim) split apart by some aerobic activity (jogging back) and some resting time(e.g. free throws, time outs, breaks). Yes Basketball players need stamina but the more important part is the short bursts.

Quote:
Now check out Marathon runners... It's the same as riding a horse. When you are heavier, you lose your stamina faster. It's simple mechanics...
Again like I said above Marathon runners have stamina...But in basketball you need way more than just stamina.

I would much rather have a guy like maurice greene(above PIC) than a marathon runner. A marathon runner can run for long time at good pace ...so what how does that help him in basketball...Now on the other hand an athlete similar to a sprinter can blow by everyone and score (Which would take about 5 seconds) and then run back and go at 40% effort or whatever and rest until he has to go 100% again.

Sprinting was just an example I used. To make it more applicable think about the most explosive athletes in the NBA (Lebron, Derrick Rose, Russel Westbrook ...) Does their body resemble a sprinter more or a marathon runner.

Last edited by tdotballing; 07-15-2011 at 04:30 AM.
tdotballing is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2011, 03:41 AM   #74 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 4,794
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdotballing View Post
To everyone who's saying "I hope he doesn't lose his quickness" ...This is a common misconception which is not true at all. Adding muscle DOES NOT make you slower. In fact adding muscle properly makes you faster.

This is why top 100 meter sprinters(some of the fastest people on earth) look like this:



Though I appreciate what you're saying however these guys run on a track in a straight line. Speed of a sprinter is not the same as agility which is what I think we're talking about. I would liken it more to MMA, lighter fighters are quicker with agility (speed of arms, changing body positions, etc) than heavy weights.
DocHoliday99 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2011, 04:06 AM   #75 (permalink)
Raptors suck

Senior Member
 
tdotballing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: GTA
Posts: 727
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
Though I appreciate what you're saying however these guys run on a track in a straight line. Speed of a sprinter is not the same as agility which is what I think we're talking about. I would liken it more to MMA, lighter fighters are quicker with agility (speed of arms, changing body positions, etc) than heavy weights.
I'm not saying that getting jacked like a heavyweight will make you quicker. I'm saying this which is a fact, look it up: adding muscle properly along with other training like plyometrics increases your quickness and explosiveness as well as makes you stronger.
tdotballing is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2011, 04:15 AM   #76 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 4,794
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdotballing View Post
I'm not saying that getting jacked like a heavyweight will make you quicker. I'm saying this which is a fact, look it up: adding muscle properly along with other training like plyometrics increases your quickness and explosiveness as well as makes you stronger.
I totally agree with you but a sprinter is not 7' tall, there are some other factors involved here.
DocHoliday99 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2011, 05:13 AM   #77 (permalink)
some creepy guy

Senior Member
 
MARTYNAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: far far away
Posts: 1,445
Representing:
Default

You still don't get it tdotballing. Look.

We talking about basketball players speed here.
You said
Quote:
Adding muscle DOES NOT make you slower
Adding upper body muscle DOES make you slower. Only in such a intense runs as sprint, human really uses his big upper body strength (check out slo-mo replays), in other cases, extra weight is an obstacle...


Quote:
48 Minutes is the full game yes...Does this mean that the players are constantly sprinting at 100% effort for 48 minutes...NO..they are sprinting/giving full effort for a very small percentage of the actual game...
Yes... But heavier people still must to give up more energy and losing their foot quickness no matter what they do. And PRO basketball is extremely fast sport.

Quote:
From your post you make it seem that you think athletes built like sprinters can only run for 10 seconds and then they shut down or something...
No. My post means sprinters bodies developed for sprints. They can do a lot, they are very strong, but their main strength is 10/20 seconds run. Their strong and heavy upper body would be an obstacle in long run, just like to any basketball players, who wasting his stamina way more than 20 seconds...

Quote:
Again like I said above Marathon runners have stamina...But in basketball you need way more than just stamina.

I would much rather have a guy like maurice greene(above PIC) than a marathon runner.
It has nothing to do with anything. Topic is, upper body muscle makes you slower... Of course in basketball you need more than stamina. I mean d'uh... ANd now you talking about guys like Rose. You went offtopic. As you said, in basketball you need way more than just stamina. But how is that prooves that extra muscle weight DOES NOT make you slower? Course it does. Thats why player Like Jonas must found that very best lbs. number, to be strong and quick/athletic.

Bottom line. Extra weight does make you slower. Fact. Muscle=weight.
I just Gave you Marathon runner example, cause both, Marathon and Basketball demands stamina. Difference, Marathon needs nothing else, thats why it's runners can allow themselves to have such a fragile upper body (not like Basketball players, because it's very physical sport).

Last edited by MARTYNAS; 07-15-2011 at 05:17 AM.
MARTYNAS is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2011, 06:43 AM   #78 (permalink)
some creepy guy

Senior Member
 
MARTYNAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: far far away
Posts: 1,445
Representing:
Default

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGCHs...mbedded#at=494

One video with Jonas. In Lithuanian so you guys can't understad this. But it should be interested to look at. Some footage of him from age 15 to this day.

1:30 2007. 15 years old
4:15 2008.
6:40 2009.
8:35 2010
MARTYNAS is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2011, 07:44 AM   #79 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,301
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
JV is bigger at 18 than Bosh is now, at 26. He's also a few cm taller. I believe Bosh was 205 when he came into the league, not much heavier than a PG ...

I don't see the comparison at all, Bosh has a wiry frame, it was clear from the beginning he will never be a big PF. JV seems to have a much wider frame and could easily get to 270+ when he gets older. He reminds me a lot more of AB than CB.
A much wider frame? Which one of these guys did you sleep with?

I agree that he has certain advantages over a young Bosh, which is very encouraging, but it's the health of the knees that I find most attractive, as it will allow fora similar style of play to go along with those advantages. If he end up playing like AB those advantages will amount to very little.

Does that help?
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2011, 12:32 PM   #80 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,530
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
A much wider frame? Which one of these guys did you sleep with?

I agree that he has certain advantages over a young Bosh, which is very encouraging, but it's the health of the knees that I find most attractive, as it will allow fora similar style of play to go along with those advantages. If he end up playing like AB those advantages will amount to very little.

Does that help?
I think it's pretty clear he plays nothing like bargnani. I was referring to the body structure. AB is at 260 now and he could easily add another 10lbs. As for knees, he's only 18, there's no way of knowing how his knees will turn out.

Quickness wise, I wouldn't worry if he loses a little if he compensates with increased strength. His style of play doesn't require a lot of quickness, he will get his points around the basket and on PNR. Strength is a lot more critical. And adding weight didn't seem to slow down Bargnani too much either, although he seems to have a bit too much fat.
moremilk is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24