Koreen: Will Triano be back? - Page 2
Old 05-19-2011, 02:48 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Lack of accountability and discipline imo, and that speaks to coaching. Now obviously i'm bias since i really dislike Triano as a coach and predicted him failing from the begining, but i just think we need an unpgrade, and need more intensity and accountability at the defensive end.
They just resigned COllangelo.. He sure as hell is keeping triano around. He likes what he sees in player development. And so do i.
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Old 05-19-2011, 02:53 PM   #22 (permalink)
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They just resigned COllangelo.. He sure as hell is keeping triano around. He likes what he sees in player development. And so do i.
Really, we're the worst defensive team two years running and often look absolutely lost out there in our own end and that's not just on the players. This team would develop a lot better under a defensive minded coach.
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Old 05-19-2011, 02:53 PM   #23 (permalink)
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They just resigned COllangelo.. He sure as hell is keeping triano around. He likes what he sees in player development. And so do i.
+1, if not anything else Jay seems to do a good job in that department
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Old 05-19-2011, 02:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Really, we're the worst defensive team two years running and often look absolutely lost out there in our own end and that's not just on the players. This team would develop a lot better under a defensive minded coach.
I don't know how much of the system is the problem, you can see when they want to turn it on they have been able to, just too much inconsistencies with chemistry from injuries and lineup changes & inexperience.
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Old 05-19-2011, 02:56 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I don't know how much of the system is the problem, you can see when they want to turn it on they have been able to, just too much inconsistencies with chemistry from injuries and lineup changes & inexperience.
For three seasons now under Triano it's been a trend. Sorry but he sucks at coaching defense.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Really, we're the worst defensive team two years running and often look absolutely lost out there in our own end and that's not just on the players. This team would develop a lot better under a defensive minded coach.
They have developed well. But when you put together a bunch of new guys every year and change your core.
When the team thats put together, through injuries, havent had time to practise together all year. These things cause problems.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:29 PM   #27 (permalink)
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They have developed well. But when you put together a bunch of new guys every year and change your core.
When the team thats put together, through injuries, havent had time to practise together all year. These things cause problems.
Triano has had two full training camps. Thibodeau changed the philosphy of Boston and Chicago with one training camp. Players have improved offensively. However, has Bargnani and Derozan improved defensively since two years ago. Bargnani has regressed. Triano does not make his players accountable on the defensive end, instead he gives them all the minutes. Triano is a nice guy, players like him, but nice guys finish last. Want evidence, check were we rank defensively the last two years, and our record this year.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:43 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Triano has had two full training camps. Thibodeau changed the philosphy of Boston and Chicago with one training camp. Players have improved offensively. However, has Bargnani and Derozan improved defensively since two years ago. Bargnani has regressed. Triano does not make his players accountable on the defensive end, instead he gives them all the minutes. Triano is a nice guy, players like him, but nice guys finish last. Want evidence, check were we rank defensively the last two years, and our record this year.
Thibodeau inherited a bulls team that was 41-41, 8th seed in the playoffs and already decent defensively. He's got guys like Noah and Deng and not to mention a once in a lifetime player in Rose.

The celtics are composed of 3 HOFers with KG as the anchor of that defense and Perk protecting the paint.

whats the constant with the Raptors team with Triano as coach? calderon, bargnani? enough said

triano doesn't have the luxury of having players remotely close to those on the bulls and the celtics. give him good players and then judge him.

a good coach can't help bad defensive players become good defensive players. however a good coach can make a neither good or bad defensive player be successful defensively or can take an already good defensive player and translate that into an overall good defensive team through his system.

what the Raptors have are a bunch of players that are simply outmatched on most nights. they can barely hold their own, let alone help with covering the deficiencies of fellow teammates

Last edited by powerfulpanda; 05-19-2011 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Triano has had two full training camps. Thibodeau changed the philosphy of Boston and Chicago with one training camp. Players have improved offensively. However, has Bargnani and Derozan improved defensively since two years ago. Bargnani has regressed. Triano does not make his players accountable on the defensive end, instead he gives them all the minutes. Triano is a nice guy, players like him, but nice guys finish last. Want evidence, check were we rank defensively the last two years, and our record this year.
Is there one player that has really improved defensively under Triano? Considering our standing in the league on the defensive end i would say no for the most part as you said. If anything Bargnani specifically has regressed on D imo. Derozan has improved on offense due mainly to his hard work with the assistants on improving his shot. Davis didn't play in training camp/first month of the season. His defensive/reb/Blk abilities are built in....it's what he does.

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Old 05-19-2011, 03:49 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Thibodeau inherited a bulls team that was 41-41, 8th seed in the playoffs and already decent defensively. He's got guys like Noah and Deng and not to mention a once in a lifetime player in Rose.

The celtics are composed of 3 HOFers with KG as the anchor of that defense and Perk protecting the paint.

whats the constant with the Raptors team with Triano as coach? calderon, bargnani? enough said

triano doesn't have the luxury of having players remotely close to those on the bulls and the celtics. give him good players and then judge him.

a good coach can't help bad defensive players become good defensive players. however a good coach can make a neither good or bad defensive player be successful defensively or can take an already good defensive player and translate that into an overall good defensive team through his system.

what the Raptors have are a bunch of players that are simply outmatched on most nights. they can barely hold their own, let alone help with covering the deficiencies of fellow teammates
Chicago wasn't that good defensively last season, he came in and got mostly the same team to be the best defensive team in the league and to a 62 win season with Boozer injured twice. He made a huge difference and brought in the right system to make them a much better team.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:55 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Is there one player that has really improved defensively under Triano? Considering our standing in the league on the defensive end i would say no for the most part as you said. If anything Bargnani specifically has regressed on D imo. Derozan has improved on offense due mainly to his hard work with the assistants on improving his shot. Davis didn't play in training camp/first month of the season. His defensive/reb/Blk abilities are built in....it's what he does.
so its a lose-lose situation for triano.
when players regress under his watch, its his coaching but nothing falls on the player. and when a player is actually ok defensively, its the player and not because of triano.

anyways, personally i think bargnani's regression on D is all on him. because the flaws we all point out about his game on D is more about him than it is about the team. like, if he don't box out he don't box out, if he gives players a free pass to the basket he gives players a free pass to the basket. i don't see how any of that falls on the coach.
as for davis, i do agree its inate. but you can't expect he is going to change the teams defensive efficiency by himself
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Old 05-19-2011, 04:02 PM   #32 (permalink)
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so its a lose-lose situation for triano.
when players regress under his watch, its his coaching but nothing falls on the player.
I stated earlier "It's not JUST the players"

Not everything is on Triano, and same goes with the players. Point is they haven't improved defensively in three years under Triano, blame who you want but to say that he isn't responsible for at least some of it is crazy to me. Triano has been saying for two seasons that Defense is priority and has had two training camps to impliment that and it's either not stuck and the players aren't getting it at all or he's simply a piss poor defensive coach. I truely think it's a bit of both. Problem is even with both, it means that the coach isn't getting his point accross or is teaching the wrong things. Either way, this bad a defense for this long has to be attributed to some degree to the coaching. To what degree is an individual opinion.

Last edited by jeffb; 05-19-2011 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 05-19-2011, 04:02 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Chicago wasn't that good defensively last season, he came in and got mostly the same team to be the best defensive team in the league and to a 62 win season with Boozer injured twice. He made a huge difference and brought in the right system to make them a much better team.
i don't have the figures and i'm too lazy to look it up, so i'll assume ur right in that chicago wasn't that good defensively last season.

so that means, they were by no means horrible right? which goes along with what i was saying about a good coach can make a team that is neither good nor bad defensively become a successful defensive team. but a good coach can't turn a bad defensive team good.

and chicago had guys like noah and deng, who were already good defensive players individually. so to thibodeau's credit, he used the players that he had already that were good defensively and incorporated it into a system that translated into a good defensive team.

basically what i'm saying is, he had pieces that he could work with. triano doesn't

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Old 05-19-2011, 04:04 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Thibodeau inherited a bulls team that was 41-41, 8th seed in the playoffs and already decent defensively. He's got guys like Noah and Deng and not to mention a once in a lifetime player in Rose.

The celtics are composed of 3 HOFers with KG as the anchor of that defense and Perk protecting the paint.

whats the constant with the Raptors team with Triano as coach? calderon, bargnani? enough said

triano doesn't have the luxury of having players remotely close to those on the bulls and the celtics. give him good players and then judge him.

a good coach can't help bad defensive players become good defensive players. however a good coach can make a neither good or bad defensive player be successful defensively or can take an already good defensive player and translate that into an overall good defensive team through his system.
My point with Thibodeau was the man needed one training camp to instill his defensive philosophies and commitment from his players. Triano has had two full training camps and more than two and half years as head coach. Also, Chicago went from a middle of pack team in defense in 2009-2010, changed half of the roster, and became the no.1 defense in the NBA. Don't tell me it had to be the players. I remember Rose slacked off on defense, and Thibodeau benched him.
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Old 05-19-2011, 04:08 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I stated earlier "It's not JUST the players"

Not everything is on Triano, and same goes with the players. Point is they haven't improved defensively in three years under Triano, blame who you want but to say that he isn't responsible for at least some of it is crazy to me. Triano has been saying for two seasons that Defense is priority and has had two training camps to impliment that and it's either not stuck and the players aren't getting it at all or he's simply a piss poor defensive coach. I truely think it's a bit of both. But either way, this bad a defense for this long has to be attributed to some degree to the coaching.
the fact that there is uncertainty as to whether the teams bad defence is on the coach, the player, or both proves that we cannot rightfully judge if triano is a good coach or not.

example 1: the celtics becoming a bad defensive team, you KNOW it falls on the coach
example 2: thibodeau coaching a bad defensive team, you KNOW it falls on the players

with the raptors, we don't KNOW
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Old 05-19-2011, 04:14 PM   #36 (permalink)
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the fact that there is uncertainty as to whether the teams bad defence is on the coach, the player, or both proves that we cannot rightfully judge if triano is a good coach or not.
I can have my opinion. And after three season, many roster combinations and failing to implement a defensive system to improve any of his players on the defensive end. Some players that were brought here that were suppose to help defensively seemed to regress, Bargnani has regressed under him at the defensive end as well. Wright this season who has his issues, but is an energy player and can play defense was glued to the bench even through injuries to key players. Which made little sense to most here. Some coaches can only take an organisation so far before someone else is brought in to take them to the next level. I just don't know how much further Triano can take this team, and i don't have any confidence in his long term viability as this team tries to have some playoff success in a couple years.

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Old 05-19-2011, 04:25 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I can have my opinion.
fair enough.
my opinion is that our bad defense is both, but more players than coach. i also believe that triano is a GOOD ENOUGH coach when he has the right pieces to work with.
i will reserve my judgement to see if he's the right one at the helm to take us over the hump once we assemble a competetive roster. until then i have no problems with keeping him as head coach.
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:26 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Lack of accountability and discipline imo, and that speaks to coaching. Now obviously i'm bias since i really dislike Triano as a coach and predicted him failing from the begining, but i just think we need an unpgrade, and need more intensity and accountability at the defensive end.
Yah I agree Triano is the type of coach to ask each of his players if it is ok to yell at them...
When we need a coach that says to all of them at the same time when you play badly you ass is mine!!
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Old 05-19-2011, 08:18 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Traino faults aren't just Defensive. His rotations have been terrible. Case in point the utilization of Belli and Jack by Traino and then under Monty Williams in NO. I am not saying he turned them into super stars but Williams turn them into productive players contributing to winning team. The double PG line in Bosh's is last year in my opinion sunk that season's playoff hopes. Not to mention how many last minute games we lost that season, With no plays run, just low post Isos to Bosh. And it happened this year with Bargs as well, only it would be at the elbow or the top of key. He has just got this mentality of all we need to do is get it into the hands of best shooter all our problems are solved. He leaves his players out on island. They never seem to have confidence in what they're doing in the half court. Just think about how many shots got thrown up in the first 6 seconds of the shot clock. There are just so many glaring question marks. Some may say that this is as much on the players and decisions they make on the court, but how things faults are you going turn the blind eye to regarding execution and decision making before you truly examine they guy give them the tools.

This plus not holding are opponents under 100 pts not even 15% of the time, regardless of wins or loses.
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Old 05-19-2011, 08:21 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Traino faults aren't just Defensive. His rotations have been terrible. Case in point the utilization of Belli and Jack by Traino and then under Monty Williams in NO. I am not saying he turned them into super stars but Williams turn them into productive players contributing to winning team. The double PG line in Bosh's is last year in my opinion sunk that season's playoff hopes. Not to mention how many last minute games we lost that season, With no plays run, just low post Isos to Bosh. And it happened this year with Bargs as well, only it would be at the elbow or the top of key. He has just got this mentality of all we need to do is get it into the hands of best shooter all our problems are solved. He leaves his players out on island. They never seem to have confidence in what they're doing in the half court. Just think about how many shots got thrown up in the first 6 seconds of the shot clock. There are just so many glaring question marks. Some may say that this is as much on the players and decisions they make on the court, but how things faults are you going turn the blind eye to regarding execution and decision making before you truly examine they guy give them the tools.

This plus not holding are opponents under 100 pts not even 15% of the time, regardless of wins or loses.
+1
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