Koreen: Is it time to trade Derozan? - Page 3
Old 12-02-2013, 10:20 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Lol.... this is the Chris Bosh argument Part deux.

I "way over rate him" because I think he'll probably be an all-star this year (mostly due to a lack of serious talent at the SG spot in the East)?

While you're more "realistic" by saying he'll likely be an all-star NEXT year?

Split hairs much?
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:25 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I see nothing wrong with exploring what he'd fetch in a trade....
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:26 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Lol.... this is the Chris Bosh argument Part deux.

I "way over rate him" because I think he'll probably be an all-star this year (mostly due to a lack of serious talent at the SG spot in the East)?

While you're more "realistic" by saying he'll likely be an all-star NEXT year?

Split hairs much?
I said likely? I said may, meaning there's always the possibility. The fact he's barely, if at all in the all-star discussion with the lack of the talent in the east should tell you something.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:28 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Lol.... this is the Chris Bosh argument Part deux.

I "way over rate him" because I think he'll probably be an all-star this year (mostly due to a lack of serious talent at the SG spot in the East)?

While you're more "realistic" by saying he'll likely be an all-star NEXT year?

Split hairs much?
the part of the post that pissed me off the most/made me chuckle?

most coaches want him to be a bench player, or a 34d/4th man in starting lineup.

Outside of the heat's of the league, he's so goddamn mistaken it's unreal
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:28 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I said likely? I said may, meaning there's always the possibility. The fact he's barely, if at all in the all-star discussion with the lack of the talent in the east should tell you something.
Still waiting for someone to make a list of SGs better than him in the East.

Would you care to do it?

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I see nothing wrong with exploring what he'd fetch in a trade....
Neither do I. Never said he was "untradeable".
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:29 PM   #46 (permalink)
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yeah, except the key word is slightly. He's been making slight progress every year and at this rate, he will be retired by the time he makes an all star. 2 weeks ago everybody was down on him, he had 5-6 good games and now it's the opposite.

If you get a top 8 pick in this draft, I think you trade demar without hesitation. That's what I would call selling high. There's no way you get that kind of offer though.

I like demar's progress as much as you do, but I don't understand why people talk all star with him. He's still bad defensively, doesn't really create for others and only shown the ability to create shots for himself at a pretty inefficient rate. If he can show consistent ability to shoot in the high 40s from the field and high 30s from the 3, that would make him a pretty efficient scorer, a slightly better kevin martin in other words (better D and worse O). If he can improve on THAT, than we're talking all star conversation, but he's still a long way from that.
well said moremilk
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:31 PM   #47 (permalink)
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You all know that it's listed as guards not sgs and pgs for voting.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:34 PM   #48 (permalink)
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You all know that it's listed as guards not sgs and pgs for voting.
You beat me to it.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:37 PM   #49 (permalink)
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You all know that it's listed as guards not sgs and pgs for voting.
Fair enough. Let's include PGs too then.

Wade
Wall
Teague
Afflalo
MCW
Kyrie (even though he's been HORRIBLE?)

Is it ridiculous to think that DD could make it in over one of those guys.... particularly if the Raps have the better record?
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:37 PM   #50 (permalink)
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SG's better? There probably aren't many in the east, that's true... but Wade, Afflalo
and Stephenson are. Also, Evan Turner, but he seems to be playing the three now. Beal if he hadn't been hurt.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:41 PM   #51 (permalink)
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SG's better? There probably aren't many in the east, that's true... but Wade, Afflalo
and Stephenson are. Also, Evan Turner, but he seems to be playing the three now. Beal if he hadn't been hurt.
Stephenson's debatable IMO... and as you said.. Turner's a 3 now and Beal is hurt. So is Rondo. So is D-Will... which is why I said he probably has a good chance.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:44 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:47 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Turner is listed as a guard on the ballot.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:47 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Stephenson's debatable IMO... and as you said.. Turner's a 3 now and Beal is hurt. So is Rondo. So is D-Will... which is why I said he probably has a good chance.
I agree, he has a good chance, and I hope he gets it... so we can sell even higher!
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:49 PM   #55 (permalink)
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So his potential to be an all-star this season is akin to the raps' position - a s**tload of circumstance and a weak east.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:49 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I agree, he has a good chance, and I hope he gets it... so we can sell even higher!
I agree, even though if he makes the all-star team, he won't be going anywhere. I can guarantee that.

This team has never sold high on any player in it's history, I doubt it starts if someone on this team actually makes an all-star selection.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:59 PM   #57 (permalink)
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yeah, except the key word is slightly. He's been making slight progress every year and at this rate, he will be retired by the time he makes an all star. 2 weeks ago everybody was down on him, he had 5-6 good games and now it's the opposite.

If you get a top 8 pick in this draft, I think you trade demar without hesitation. That's what I would call selling high. There's no way you get that kind of offer though.

I like demar's progress as much as you do, but I don't understand why people talk all star with him. He's still bad defensively, doesn't really create for others and only shown the ability to create shots for himself at a pretty inefficient rate. If he can show consistent ability to shoot in the high 40s from the field and high 30s from the 3, that would make him a pretty efficient scorer, a slightly better kevin martin in other words (better D and worse O). If he can improve on THAT, than we're talking all star conversation, but he's still a long way from that.
Well said.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:20 PM   #58 (permalink)
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So his potential to be an all-star this season is akin to the raps' position - a s**tload of circumstance and a weak east.
Pretty much. It's not as if we're talking about Fields or Ross making the all-star team though. DD actually has talent and contrary to what you might think he HAS been getting better and is pretty solid right now.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:42 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Keeping him would ensure the treadmill continues imo. He's not a winning player. At some point you need to sell high on some of your assets and not just dump struggling players for pennies on the dollar. He is by far our biggest asset at this point. Let's trade Gay instead and get a couple expirings and a lottery protected pick. That should get us off the treadmill...

Oh and if this keeps up, Derozan may just get fed up and ask to be moved anyway.
He isn't a winning player? Based on what exactly? Playing with Bosh a little bit and then in a re-build mode for a few years under BC?? You are not gonna get a better and younger player with higher all-star potential by doing a swap with another team, unless you package him up in a blockbuster deal.

Last edited by Tommy C; 12-02-2013 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:45 PM   #60 (permalink)
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There is no reason to think that this is just a fluke. Demar has been getting better incrementally year by year, and seemingly has put it together this season (offensively). Defensively still needs work but given his work ethic and that generally defence comes with age, there's no reason to think that even that won't improve next season, or even later this season. He definitely has the tools for it...

People want to "sell high" because of the Bargnani era. but these are two different players. Bargnani was a player who had the talent and raw ability to be one of the best in the league. But he didn't give a flying fuck so he had ups and downs.

Derozan is a guy who, while not as naturally talented as say Carter or kobe, has the work ethic of kobe. This means he'll only get better, or stay at his supposed peak (kid's 24... peak doesn't hit till 27 ish anyways). I'm against tanking, and I think with a real coach and a smart trade involving gay and some other pieces for example, could make this team a solid team; possibly solid enough for 50+wins. ESPECIALLY given val and ross, whom if they hit even half their potential, would turn us into a 50 plus win team if well coached, and maybe even a contender if they hit their full or close to full potential.

I'm tired of blowing it up. This organization needs consistency. We have the talent and core. Some minor intelligent tweeking and we could have a good to great team on our hands, rather than hoping to god we lose the most games so we can get a fucking 25 percent chance at a wiggins.

+1
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