Koreen: Is it time to trade Derozan? - Page 2
Old 12-02-2013, 08:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
MBailey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Posts: 2,377
Representing:
Default

DeRozan is one of the couple player's on this roster who shows any passion for winning and is someone that other players wanna play with. He gets praised by opposing coaches and NBA analysts and former players,all while improving at the age of 24.............yes,the Raptors should trade him right now lol!
MBailey85 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 08:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,533
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
What is it with some in this fanbase that allows them to never want to sell high on anyone. But let's trade Gay for expirings. lol
How do you know you're selling high? If he plays the same way for 10-20 more games and end up at a 20+ per and decent efficiency overalll isn't that better? Why is it this fanbase remebers Bargnani's 13 games and now wants to get rid of our best players!

The only thing I dislike in the article is that getting rid of DD won't help jonus at all if we can't make an outside shot, Gay keeps chucking and we still never run a pick and roll. It doesn't really solve the problem unless it is specifcally addressed by trading him for a PG (and firing Casey and getting rid of Gay).
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 08:46 PM   #23 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,377
Representing:
Default

All I can say is that if we DO deal him we had better get an all-star back in return.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 08:48 PM   #24 (permalink)
rootin for the eagles, boise state, the leafs, raps, and jays

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 5,563
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
All I can say is that if we DO deal him we had better get an all-star back in return.
You don't get an all-star for a player that isn't an all-star.
Chiggmo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 08:49 PM   #25 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiggmo View Post
You don't get an all-star for a player that isn't an all-star.
yup
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 08:59 PM   #26 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 6,932
Representing:
Default

There is no reason to think that this is just a fluke. Demar has been getting better incrementally year by year, and seemingly has put it together this season (offensively). Defensively still needs work but given his work ethic and that generally defence comes with age, there's no reason to think that even that won't improve next season, or even later this season. He definitely has the tools for it...

People want to "sell high" because of the Bargnani era. but these are two different players. Bargnani was a player who had the talent and raw ability to be one of the best in the league. But he didn't give a flying fuck so he had ups and downs.

Derozan is a guy who, while not as naturally talented as say Carter or kobe, has the work ethic of kobe. This means he'll only get better, or stay at his supposed peak (kid's 24... peak doesn't hit till 27 ish anyways). I'm against tanking, and I think with a real coach and a smart trade involving gay and some other pieces for example, could make this team a solid team; possibly solid enough for 50+wins. ESPECIALLY given val and ross, whom if they hit even half their potential, would turn us into a 50 plus win team if well coached, and maybe even a contender if they hit their full or close to full potential.

I'm tired of blowing it up. This organization needs consistency. We have the talent and core. Some minor intelligent tweeking and we could have a good to great team on our hands, rather than hoping to god we lose the most games so we can get a fucking 25 percent chance at a wiggins.
pzabby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 09:03 PM   #27 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,533
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiggmo View Post
You don't get an all-star for a player that isn't an all-star.
Hollinger's NBA Player Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN

Which 2 shooting guards to you see ahead of him in the east? Kind of early to talk about it but it made me think. I can see PGs there in place but just saying.
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 09:04 PM   #28 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,377
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiggmo View Post
You don't get an all-star for a player that isn't an all-star.
Given DD's age, contract and the fact that he's gotten better ever year... I don't think it's a lot to ask. Dude is top 10 in league scoring.

And as homer-ish as it might sound.... Demar actually might have a decent shot at being an all-star this season. In the East so far you've got Wade... Afflalo... Joe Johnson (meh) and.... who else exactly? Lance Stephenson maybe? Beal, who might be out for a few months?

As I said... I like his chances. Esp. if he keeps up his current play.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 09:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
rootin for the eagles, boise state, the leafs, raps, and jays

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 5,563
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Given DD's age, contract and the fact that he's gotten better ever year... I don't think it's a lot to ask. Dude is top 10 in league scoring.

And as homer-ish as it might sound.... Demar actually might have a decent shot at being an all-star this season. In the East so far you've got Wade... Afflalo... Joe Johnson (meh) and.... who else exactly? Lance Stephenson maybe? Beal, who might be out for a few months?

As I said... I like his chances. Esp. if he keeps up his current play.
He's not an all-star, doesn't have the rep to be an all-star (we all know its a popularity contest) and the only thing he's done this year is chuck more. He plays exactly like Rudy but contributes nothing else but points on a even semi-consistent basis along with his D still yet to ever improve really.

Homer away, but you won't get an all-star for Demar, it's not happening. He's still valuble and a pretty good player, but you're way ahead of yourself here.
Chiggmo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 09:37 PM   #30 (permalink)
is a free agent

Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,808
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
sure, but only if the return was worthy of trading an all star. In other words, sell high doesn't mean to sell him for late lottery pick.

But overall, I don't buy his value is all that high. I doubt any GM would fall for Devlin favourites such as "best scorer in the league since yesterday at 8:54pm". Demar is a pretty known quantity and breakout years are rare for players with 6 years of experience. If he keeps it up for a full season, may change the conversation. But even then, what can we realistically expect? What would you trade for say klay thompson? Not JV and definitely not your first round pick this draft. And I don't think demar is even close to thompson in value right now.
Dude is 24 and got better each year since he was drafted and hasn't reached his ceiling. Yeah, sure, let's trade him now and keep the treadmill going so we could finish 9th again, maybe even 10th.
Tommy C is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 09:47 PM   #31 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,928
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy C View Post
Dude is 24 and got better each year since he was drafted and hasn't reached his ceiling. Yeah, sure, let's trade him now and keep the treadmill going so we could finish 9th again, maybe even 10th.
Keeping him would ensure the treadmill continues imo. He's not a winning player. At some point you need to sell high on some of your assets and not just dump struggling players for pennies on the dollar. He is by far our biggest asset at this point. Let's trade Gay instead and get a couple expirings and a lottery protected pick. That should get us off the treadmill...

Oh and if this keeps up, Derozan may just get fed up and ask to be moved anyway.

Last edited by jeffb; 12-02-2013 at 09:50 PM.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 09:52 PM   #32 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 6,932
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Keeping him would ensure the treadmill continues imo. He's not a winning player. At some point you need to sell high on some of your assets and not just dump struggling players for pennies on the dollar. He is by far our biggest asset at this point. Let's trade Gay instead and get a couple expirings and a lottery protected pick. That should get us off the treadmill...

Oh and if this keeps up, Derozan may just get fed up and ask to be moved anyway.
not a winning player based on what really? please, expand.
pzabby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 09:54 PM   #33 (permalink)
LOG
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
LOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,424
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Keeping him would ensure the treadmill continues imo. He's not a winning player. At some point you need to sell high on some of your assets and not just dump struggling players for pennies on the dollar. He is by far our biggest asset at this point. Let's trade Gay instead and get a couple expirings and a lottery protected pick. That should get us off the treadmill...
Lets! That would be amazing!

And no DD is not the cause of the treadmill at 9.5 mil he is not handcuffing this team in any way. Hell his salary would be acceptable for a 6th man. the Fact that we don't have stars is different story
LOG is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 10:05 PM   #34 (permalink)
rootin for the eagles, boise state, the leafs, raps, and jays

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 5,563
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
not a winning player based on what really? please, expand.
I'll quote you since you don't like to expand and just stick with "no"
Chiggmo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 10:05 PM   #35 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,388
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy C View Post
Dude is 24 and got better each year since he was drafted and hasn't reached his ceiling. Yeah, sure, let's trade him now and keep the treadmill going so we could finish 9th again, maybe even 10th.
yeah, except the key word is slightly. He's been making slight progress every year and at this rate, he will be retired by the time he makes an all star. 2 weeks ago everybody was down on him, he had 5-6 good games and now it's the opposite.

If you get a top 8 pick in this draft, I think you trade demar without hesitation. That's what I would call selling high. There's no way you get that kind of offer though.

I like demar's progress as much as you do, but I don't understand why people talk all star with him. He's still bad defensively, doesn't really create for others and only shown the ability to create shots for himself at a pretty inefficient rate. If he can show consistent ability to shoot in the high 40s from the field and high 30s from the 3, that would make him a pretty efficient scorer, a slightly better kevin martin in other words (better D and worse O). If he can improve on THAT, than we're talking all star conversation, but he's still a long way from that.
moremilk is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 10:07 PM   #36 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,377
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiggmo View Post
He's not an all-star, doesn't have the rep to be an all-star (we all know its a popularity contest) and the only thing he's done this year is chuck more. He plays exactly like Rudy but contributes nothing else but points on a even semi-consistent basis along with his D still yet to ever improve really.

Homer away, but you won't get an all-star for Demar, it's not happening. He's still valuble and a pretty good player, but you're way ahead of yourself here.
"Doesn't have the rep to be an all-star"? You're aware that only the starters are voted in by the fans right? The coaches pick the rest... and given the number of teams that are interested in DD I think it's safe to say that people have noticed.

As for "playing like Rudy"? Please. Demar IS shooting more, yes... but he's also scoring more too. In fact he's posting career highs in scoring, rebs, assists, steals, FTAs AND 3pters (which was always a knock on his game).

And then there's the ease with which he scores these days compared to seasons past. Did you watch the Miami game? When DD scored at will against one of the best defenses in the league? In a variety of ways?

I used to be one of his biggest critics but I give credit when credit is due. Demar isn't Gay... and he sure as hell isn't Bargs. He's a good player... and he's still getting better.

He'll be an all-star.

Last edited by TORaptor4Ever; 12-02-2013 at 10:10 PM.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 10:09 PM   #37 (permalink)
rootin for the eagles, boise state, the leafs, raps, and jays

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 5,563
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
yeah, except the key word is slightly. He's been making slight progress every year and at this rate, he will be retired by the time he makes an all star. 2 weeks ago everybody was down on him, he had 5-6 good games and now it's the opposite.

If you get a top 8 pick in this draft, I think you trade demar without hesitation. That's what I would call selling high. There's no way you get that kind of offer though.

I like demar's progress as much as you do, but I don't understand why people talk all star with him. He's still bad defensively, doesn't really create for others and only shown the ability to create shots for himself at a pretty inefficient rate. If he can show consistent ability to shoot in the high 40s from the field and high 30s from the 3, that would make him a pretty efficient scorer, a slightly better kevin martin in other words (better D and worse O). If he can improve on THAT, than we're talking all star conversation, but he's still a long way from that.
Said something similar in another thread today. Spot on pretty well.
Chiggmo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 10:12 PM   #38 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,377
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
yeah, except the key word is slightly. He's been making slight progress every year and at this rate, he will be retired by the time he makes an all star. 2 weeks ago everybody was down on him, he had 5-6 good games and now it's the opposite.

If you get a top 8 pick in this draft, I think you trade demar without hesitation. That's what I would call selling high. There's no way you get that kind of offer though.

I like demar's progress as much as you do, but I don't understand why people talk all star with him. He's still bad defensively, doesn't really create for others and only shown the ability to create shots for himself at a pretty inefficient rate. If he can show consistent ability to shoot in the high 40s from the field and high 30s from the 3, that would make him a pretty efficient scorer, a slightly better kevin martin in other words (better D and worse O). If he can improve on THAT, than we're talking all star conversation, but he's still a long way from that.
Thing is.... Demar doesn't have to compete with the likes of Harden, Kobe, Kevin Martin, Monta Ellis, Klay Thompson and the other SGs in the West....

Who would you put above him in the East other than Wade and Afflalo?

Last edited by TORaptor4Ever; 12-02-2013 at 10:15 PM.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 10:14 PM   #39 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,928
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
yeah, except the key word is slightly. He's been making slight progress every year and at this rate, he will be retired by the time he makes an all star. 2 weeks ago everybody was down on him, he had 5-6 good games and now it's the opposite.

If you get a top 8 pick in this draft, I think you trade demar without hesitation. That's what I would call selling high. There's no way you get that kind of offer though.

I like demar's progress as much as you do, but I don't understand why people talk all star with him. He's still bad defensively, doesn't really create for others and only shown the ability to create shots for himself at a pretty inefficient rate. If he can show consistent ability to shoot in the high 40s from the field and high 30s from the 3, that would make him a pretty efficient scorer, a slightly better kevin martin in other words (better D and worse O). If he can improve on THAT, than we're talking all star conversation, but he's still a long way from that.
Well said.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 10:17 PM   #40 (permalink)
rootin for the eagles, boise state, the leafs, raps, and jays

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 5,563
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
"Doesn't have the rep to be an all-star"? You're aware that only the starters are voted in by the fans right? The coaches pick the rest... and given the number of teams that are interested in DD I think it's safe to say that people have noticed.

As for "playing like Rudy"? Please. Demar IS shooting more, yes... but he's also scoring more too. In fact he's posting career highs in scoring, rebs, assists, steals, FTAs AND 3pters (which was always a knock on his game).

And then there's the ease with which he scores these days compared to seasons past. Did you watch the Miami game? When DD scored at will against one of the best defenses in the league? In a variety of ways?

I used to be one of his biggest critics but I give credit when credit is due. Demar isn't Gay... and he sure as hell isn't Bargs. He's a good player... and he's still getting better.

He'll be an all-star.
Give all the credit you want, he's a selfish ball-hog just like Rudy, he makes as many stupid plays as Rudy, he often passes up wide open teammates, just like Rudy! Most nights he does absolutely nothing until were already out of the game and going to lose. A real all-star does more than score points (You can say whatever you want about his still garbage reb and assist numbers). His D is still horrid, this team is still trash, he's a been one of the go-to guys since he was on this team and we've never even been a really competitive team.

You can keep overrating him and giving him the credit he doesn't deserve all you want. His "improvement" has been so slight every year you're over-blowing it.

Oh and just because some coaches would like him to be a back up, or a 3 rd or 4th option starter, doesn't make him an all-star.

He may be next year or the year after, but you still way overrate the kid man.

"Doesn't have the rep to be an all-star"? You're aware that only the starters are voted in by the fans right?

You realize majority of coaches still select those players based off their Rep right? Its happened year after year dude.
Chiggmo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24