Koreen: Bargnani is the lesser of two evils
Old 04-09-2010, 10:29 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Arrow Koreen: Bargnani is the lesser of two evils

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Maybe what Bargnani lacks more than anything is urgency, a sense of the moment.

Take Bargnani's performances this year without Chris Bosh in the lineup. On Wednesday against Boston, he was average: 17 points on eight-for-22 shooting with five rebounds in 39 minutes. The Raptors lost, as they have in six of the nine games Bosh has not played in (including Tuesday's game in Cleveland when Bosh broke two bones in his face two minutes into the game, ending his regular season).

Bargnani's statistics in the 67 games he has played with Bosh in the lineup this year: 17.1 points, 6.4 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per game on 47.1% shooting. When Bosh plays, Bargnani averages 34.6 minutes of floor time per game.

Bargnani's statistics in the nine games this season in which he has played and Bosh has not: 15.0 points, 4.6 rebounds, 1.2 blocks per game on 41.6% shooting. When Bosh does not play, Bargnani averages 36.7 minutes of floor time per game.

The drop off is noticeable and discouraging. However, this might be just as discouraging: When Bosh plays, Bargnani takes 14 field-goal attempts per game compared to 14.6 attempts when Bosh is out of the lineup. If you break it down by minute, Bargnani is actually shooting slightly less frequently when Bosh is out of the lineup, at the precise time when they need more offence.

This is not about him becoming a different player while Bosh is out, picking up the load defensively and on the glass; it is about him doing the things he does well more frequently to ease the pain of missing Bosh.

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Old 04-09-2010, 10:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
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It's difficult to find a 7 footer with more skills but he always be a 2nd option due to his attitude. If you born square you can't die round
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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He averages 2 less rebounds when Bosh is out. That's terrible.

Maybe it was Bosh doing to boxing out so that Bargs could get the easy rebund and not vice-versa.

Not even Reggie Evans or Amir (two good rebounders) can replace Bosh on the glass.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Bargnani will never be able to step up as a leader for this team. If Bosh is down, the only person who is able to step up is turkoglu.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JackAstors View Post
Bargnani will never be able to step up as a leader for this team. If Bosh is down, the only person who is able to step up is turkoglu.
hmmm.. turk?
really?

turk is out of his prime. clearly, he needs someone like Bargnani or Bosh to get him open. he creates off the dribble sometimes but he struggles when he has to finish. id rather see him be a forgotten threat and capitalize on points that way.

If anyone is going to step up, it'll be someone from the young guns. Weems? DeRozan, Amir?

and you cant forget jarrett jack. honestly those 4 need to stay if we are going to stay strong as an organization.. bargnani.. i really dont know what to say at this point.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It's difficult to find a 7 footer with more skills but he always be a 2nd option due to his attitude. If you born square you can't die round
Yes you can thats ridiculous.

It's about learning a new role and psychologically embracing it.

When Bosh is out, he doesn't FEEL like the go to guy.

Once Bosh is gone. he'll KNOW.
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Old 04-10-2010, 08:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I guess the most of you has played in a team - do you think that what we are talking about is so strange?

It looks quite obvious that Bargnani is not the kind of person who gets enough respect from his teammates to have a pivotal role.

He's the tall, thin and dumb child who gets slapped on the back of the neck during the training session. he's a nice guy, but the wrong kind of nice guy for any sport. he totally lacks in swagger






and he speaks like he had two potatoes in his mouth
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Old 04-10-2010, 10:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Yes you can thats ridiculous.

It's about learning a new role and psychologically embracing it.

When Bosh is out, he doesn't FEEL like the go to guy.

Once Bosh is gone. he'll KNOW.
You can only if you have the rigth mental attitude, and I think He has not
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
Yes you can thats ridiculous.

It's about learning a new role and psychologically embracing it.

When Bosh is out, he doesn't FEEL like the go to guy.

Once Bosh is gone. he'll KNOW.
But will he still shrink? I think so. I understand what the comment about being born square is about....not what he can learn, but his makeup. Much like not too many guys could force themselves to be as intense as Kevin Garnett game-in, game-out, he just doesn't seem to have that aggression and "violence" in his core.

Remember when Bosh came in as a rookie? He was so skinny, it looked like someone might break him in two. But he went to war right away, even against centres and I remember his exact words then. "So what?
Either you can play or you can't." I't's been years now. When is Bargnani going to develop that? If someone broke into Bargnani's home and started slapping his mother around, he'd grow balls instantly, but after that was over, they'd disappear.

I guess I know partially what that is about because I have been asked to rough people up in sports because of my size and I have never been able to do it. There are other guys out there I have faced who are looking to crush and maim. And no one can stop them either.
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by archie63 View Post
You can only if you have the rigth mental attitude, and I think He has not
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But will he still shrink? I think so. I understand what the comment about being born square is about....not what he can learn, but his makeup. Much like not too many guys could force themselves to be as intense as Kevin Garnett game-in, game-out, he just doesn't seem to have that aggression and "violence" in his core.

Remember when Bosh came in as a rookie? He was so skinny, it looked like someone might break him in two. But he went to war right away, even against centres and I remember his exact words then. "So what?
Either you can play or you can't." I't's been years now. When is Bargnani going to develop that? If someone broke into Bargnani's home and started slapping his mother around, he'd grow balls instantly, but after that was over, they'd disappear.

I guess I know partially what that is about because I have been asked to rough people up in sports because of my size and I have never been able to do it. There are other guys out there I have faced who are looking to crush and maim. And no one can stop them either.
Agreed on both Counts, Bargs just seems to lack that intensity, that take control kind attidude and he has still some way to go to become a dominant center or PF. Maybe the right coaching staff in place this might be possible, i say might because its ultimately up to Bargs if he wants to step out of this rut or not
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Old 04-10-2010, 03:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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no heart...
give Jack his height & tools, and you'll see 20-10
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Old 04-10-2010, 04:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lexotan View Post
I guess the most of you has played in a team - do you think that what we are talking about is so strange?

It looks quite obvious that Bargnani is not the kind of person who gets enough respect from his teammates to have a pivotal role.

He's the tall, thin and dumb child who gets slapped on the back of the neck during the training session. he's a nice guy, but the wrong kind of nice guy for any sport. he totally lacks in swagger


and he speaks like he had two potatoes in his mouth
what?...
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:45 AM   #13 (permalink)
Nasty, right? I cocked that joint back and banged on him!

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This is going to have to be a very well thought out move. If Bosh is going, a single trade of one player for one means no playoffs next year. Even if a great ball-handler came in, he'd be frustrated quickly with his starting bigs standing around on the perimeter. Bargnani and Turk are pretty impotent without Bosh on the court. If you have a guy putting up 24 and 11 and you are only a .500 team, some of these other parts have GOT TO GO!

I don't know if I can watch a team all next year with Bynum or Noah in the middle and then these same guys playing frustrating ball. I don't know what the ceiling is on those guys. Unfortunately, this team may have to go the Leafs and Jays route and just go ahead and SUCK with young guys.

If it's going to be playoff-hopeless next year, I'm at the point now where I'd rather see a bunch of young guys running wild all over the court. i.e. Amir, Weems, DeRozan, maybe Bargnani at the 4 spot, keep guys like Jack, Wright and Banks here with a directive to lead their way specifically to change the culture. Anyone else that can bring in high draft picks or gifted young players, tie a can to them and send them to the nether regions of the NBA.

But let's see what Colangelo has in his bag of tricks.
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
Yes you can thats ridiculous.

It's about learning a new role and psychologically embracing it.

When Bosh is out, he doesn't FEEL like the go to guy.

Once Bosh is gone. he'll KNOW.
He's quite often pretty much the number one option when Bosh is in the lineup. He gets the most PT and is right up there with shot attempts. He seems to know that cranking up a huge amount of horrible 3's is somehow ok. And he needs to have crazy offensive output if it's going to make up for what he refuses to do on defense on most nights. Embracing a role is hardly the problem. I'd be quite happy if he just grabbed some rebounds and embraced the ball. If I see much more of him getting a hand on the ball or tapping it out when he has favorable position, I'm going to start having some very dark fantasies, and embraces will not be involved.
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