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-   -   Kleiza vs. JJ (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/kleiza-vs-jj-22254.html)

Ammo 02-19-2012 12:19 PM

Kleiza vs. JJ
 
If you are one who believes the SF spot needs to be upgraded, it would likely mean a new logjam at 3 if they trade, draft or sign a high-skill SF.

On one hand, JJ defends quite well on a team that values defense and he is starting to realize his potential. He is also a cheap rotation guy.

On the other hand, we haven't seen the best of Kleiza here.
And we have to assume he will be an asset in the transition and orientation of cornerstone JV to North America.

I can't assume Jo Crewcut can't adjust quickly on his own. Jose did it, but he was older. Bargnani had godfather Gheradini.

It would be a waste to have one of them sitting on the bench if for example the managed to draft Barnes or MKG. Kleiza's a grizzled vet, but JJ has got to get minutes. So if you had to choose, who do you move?

Fixxxer 02-19-2012 12:24 PM

I think SF is our one position that is fine how it is....JJ and LK look great this year and they're only going to approve in my opinion.

We should leave well enough alone with that one and focus on other areas

jeffb 02-19-2012 12:24 PM

Either one can play PF as well. Even if we draft a SF he won't likely start and i think Colangelo will either sign or trade for a SF or a SG then moving Derozan to SF which BC has brought up as a possiblity. If one goes it's probably Kleiza. Unless we get Barnes or MKG it seems we'll probably draft a big or a SG. There aren't any great SF beyond Barnes.

carp 02-19-2012 12:27 PM

Both guys play well as undersized 4's so trade one of the undersized 4's instead.... Ed must go. It's as simple as it gets.

LOG 02-19-2012 12:34 PM

Both JJ and LK can be very useful when playing smaller lineup, so yea trade Ed

Alex 02-19-2012 01:06 PM

Ed goes!

Ammo 02-19-2012 01:10 PM

But even if you move Ed, you have Bargs and Amir eating up a ton of minutes, unless Barg's calf will now do it's best impersonation of Jose's groin. My problem is with the "good enough" SF's. We already have a problem with great ball handlers and shot creators. It's one reason we will continue to lose games late. Other teams don't fear, and refs don't respect TO basketball.
Why aim to employ as starters that many players who are in the bottom half of the league at their positions? I have to ignore that I like certain guys as players. We absolutely need to scare someone at minimum with 2 of the the 1-3 positions.

Aamir 02-19-2012 01:18 PM

My dream of Ed as our future PF are shattered :sigh:

I thought he played REALLY well in his first season. Very fundamentally sound(atleast defensively) and played with a high IQ.

8 and 8 in just 20-25 minutes? Pretty solid.

Don Vito 02-19-2012 02:10 PM

Why not keep both? They can both play SF/PF and maybe C at times. Just none of them will start, we need a new starter at the SF position.

Metallikid 02-19-2012 03:51 PM

Guys, you never move a capable player on a rebuilding team. Position redundancy is fine until you're actually competing for something. Ed stays, Kleiza stays, JJ stays. To be honest I think all three will be important parts of our rotation once we do become a playoff team. Bayless is the only one who has not quite proven himself as part of our future yet. And even though I think Amir is in the same category as the three players at the top, I could see him being traded sooner than Ed, his value is higher.

MikeToronto 02-19-2012 04:45 PM

JJ is the only player on this team not from Italy who has clearly improved this season. His decision making has improved, his defense, fierce to start the season, is getting even better (look at steals adding up to the blocks) and even his initially shaky shot looks much improved. He keeps playing like that, I will start to believe our position of weakness is now SG.

VanCity 02-19-2012 04:56 PM

i wouldnt move either of them. JJ is a solid defender and would look awesome coming off the bench. Kleiza has played better at the PF spot. Ed Davis seems like the odd man out. the longterm back up front court of kleiza, amir and gray looks very good. Also, if we sign a vet SF, JJ would be very valuable coming off the bench and if we draft a rookie, JJ would be great in the starting role.

Ammo 02-19-2012 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metallikid (Post 617581)
Guys, you never move a capable player on a rebuilding team. Position redundancy is fine until you're actually competing for something. Ed stays, Kleiza stays, JJ stays. To be honest I think all three will be important parts of our rotation once we do become a playoff team. Bayless is the only one who has not quite proven himself as part of our future yet. And even though I think Amir is in the same category as the three players at the top, I could see him being traded sooner than Ed, his value is higher.

But you mention players to move in the same paragraph. I think if you find young upgrades, you make a move. And we are talking about 2 gentlemen in the final year of their contracts who have spent a year deliberately doing nothing to improve. I don't think they are going to want almost an entire team of average players if they can help it.

TORaptor4Ever 02-19-2012 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 617596)
JJ is the only player on this team not from Italy who has clearly improved this season. His decision making has improved, his defense, fierce to start the season, is getting even better (look at steals adding up to the blocks) and even his initially shaky shot looks much improved. He keeps playing like that, I will start to believe our position of weakness is now SG.

Well said. He's been a bright spot all season. The only concern with him was the TOs.... and he seems to have a handle on that now.

jeffb 02-19-2012 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 617596)
JJ is the only player on this team not from Italy who has clearly improved this season. His decision making has improved, his defense, fierce to start the season, is getting even better (look at steals adding up to the blocks) and even his initially shaky shot looks much improved. He keeps playing like that, I will start to believe our position of weakness is now SG.

I still don't want him starting next season.Honestly though, I really like what both bring to the table but I don't think either should be starting. They're both very good depth players. We need to upgrade the starting unit at PG & SF. A bench of bayless, kleiza, amir, JJ is decent imo.

pzabby 02-19-2012 07:20 PM

one of them needs to go. So then it comes down to what this team wants. A scorer off the bench at SF or scorer? why not keep barbo and JJ, and get a good return for kleiza, maybe a pick?

Someguy again 02-19-2012 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzabby (Post 617648)
one of them needs to go. So then it comes down to what this team wants. A scorer off the bench at SF or scorer? why not keep barbo and JJ, and get a good return for kleiza, maybe a pick?

barbosa is not staying here lol

halphbreedballer 02-19-2012 08:18 PM

I'm fine with this combination at the sf spot, as it is right now. But if DeRozan can't muster up some consistency & better ball handling skills, then we might have trade 1 of them & move DeRozan to the sf position or we just trade DeRozan...

The fact of the matter is we need 2 ball handlers on the court at all times, which is why Bayless has started recently.

Admiral 02-20-2012 01:00 AM

i think we have a lot of useful pieces at SF but none of them are exceptional
if we can significantly upgrade the rest of the wing and PG positions then i think JJ and kleiza are sufficient, if JJ can be more consistent and have a better offensive package then he will be good, kleiza just needs to get consistent
but if we can get an allstar type SF then i'm down for that too
the focus should be on a PG upgrade and hopes that demar improves
we have too many bigs when bargs is back and when jonas comes, either or both of ed/amir have to go, i say ed because amir has a better game and ed is the young guy who is probably worth more in the market

KinoLive 02-20-2012 11:05 AM

1. Kleiza is better than JJ. Just look stats.
But maybe Kleiza is too expensive for Raptors.
2. After one year awaitining for Kleiza, is silly to let him play in other team.
3. Valanciunas will be involved in NBA play better with Kleiza, because both are Lithuanians.
4. For Valanciunas (as for all Lithuania) Kleiza is authority.


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