Kiszla from Denver Post: Nuggest Lost without Ujiri
Old 05-20-2013, 08:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
LX
with pink peppercorns

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,528
Representing:
Default Kiszla from Denver Post: Nuggest Lost without Ujiri

Kiszla: Denver Nuggets cannot afford to lose Masai Ujiri - The Denver Post

Quote:
If you had to pick one man whose leadership is most essential to the future success of the Nuggets, would you go with coach George Karl or general manager Masai Ujiri?

My vote: Ujiri is more valuable. By a power of 10.

Contrary to popular belief, the potential free agent Denver really needs to lock up this offseason is not Andre Iguodala, a $15 million guard who shoots 58 percent from the foul line and is professed to be an all-world defender, yet can't be entrusted to lock down Stephen Curry in the NBA playoffs.

Ujiri rescued the Nuggets from the chaos caused by Carmelo Anthony's trade demand.

Ujiri has discovered real talent late in the first round of the NBA draft, while bringing Kenneth Faried and Evan Fournier to Denver.

Ujiri would be far harder to replace in the front office than Karl would be on the bench.

After being recognized as the league's executive of the year, Ujiri picked a good time for his contract to expire in Denver. Sports executive Tim Leiweke helped bring the Avalanche to Colorado. Now Leiweke could steal Ujiri from town. Leiweke oversees the Toronto Raptors. The Raptors have cast covetous eyes at Ujiri.

Ujiri deserves a big raise from the Nuggets. Pronto.

During the playoffs, the Nuggets practiced at the historic, tony and musty Olympic Club in downtown San Francisco.The doors to the basketball court were closed, much to the dismay of two club members, who wanted to take a peek inside to catch a glimpse of point guard Ty Lawson.
When Ujiri exited the gym to make a cell call in private, the club members were disappointed he wasn't somebody famous.

"Who was that?" a guy dressed in sweats asked as Ujiri walked away.

"One of the most brilliant basketball minds in the NBA," I replied.
My statement was met with an incredulous look and a one-word challenge: "Really?"
Really.

With all due respect to Lawson, Ujiri is the MVP of the Nuggets.

Lose Ujiri, and the Nuggets would be lost.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 08:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
LX
with pink peppercorns

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,528
Representing:
Default

Now that I look closer, I think this might have been posted in one of the BC threads. But maybe it can be here on it's own to spur some discussion on Ujiri.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 08:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 6,870
Representing:
Default

and we let him go to keep the car salesman
pzabby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 08:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
censored

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,774
Representing:
Default

how do you compare the impact of upper management with the impact of one of the best coaches in the league. they seem to have a relationship we've been hoping from our gm & coach. any way you cut it, there'd be a massive impact, but i think losing karl would have a the biggest impact.
dfunkie1 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 09:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
LX
with pink peppercorns

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,528
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfunkie1 View Post
how do you compare the impact of upper management with the impact of one of the best coaches in the league. they seem to have a relationship we've been hoping from our gm & coach. any way you cut it, there'd be a massive impact, but i think losing karl would have a the biggest impact.
Yeah, I thought it was over the top. But it is nice to think that he might truly be one of the greatest basketball minds, and that he might land here.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 09:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
LOG
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
LOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,964
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Yeah, I thought it was over the top. But it is nice to think that he might truly be one of the greatest basketball minds, and that he might land here.
he made some good moves but no way he is one of the greatest basketball minds
LOG is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 09:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
is doing it BIG.

Member
 
TDotRaptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Quebec
Posts: 410
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfunkie1 View Post
how do you compare the impact of upper management with the impact of one of the best coaches in the league. they seem to have a relationship we've been hoping from our gm & coach. any way you cut it, there'd be a massive impact, but i think losing karl would have a the biggest impact.
Karl is an overrated coach. I'm not saying he's bad, but his track record speaks for itself. All of these years in the league and no championship, and he's always getting bounced in the first or second round. He's comparable to D'Antoni in that his system has a high focus on offense and little to no regard for defense. Ujiri is responsible for bringing the talent to Denver and making that team better post-Melo era. He deserves a ton of credit for that.

He's welcome with open arms in our front office.

Last edited by TDotRaptor; 05-20-2013 at 09:43 PM.
TDotRaptor is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 09:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 72,786
Representing:
Default

It's very odd to me that Denver hasn't extended him by now. From everything i'm hearing Denver is not known for overpaying their executives. I have a decent feeling about him coming here unless he's willing to take less money to stay in Denver.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 09:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 72,786
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDotRaptor View Post
Karl is an overrated coach. I'm not saying he's bad, but his track record speaks for itself. All of these years in the league and no championship, and he's always getting bounced in the first or second round. He's comparable to D'Antoni in that his system has a high focus on offense and little to no regard for defense. Ujiri is responsible for bringing the talent to Denver and making that team better post-Melo era. He deserves a ton of credit for that.

He's welcome with open arms in our front office.
How many championships does Jerry Sloan have? Yet that man walks on water with everyone. George Karl is a very good coach no doubt, great.......that can be debated.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 10:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
LX
with pink peppercorns

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,528
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDotRaptor View Post
Karl is an overrated coach. I'm not saying he's bad, but his track record speaks for itself. All of these years in the league and no championship, and he's always getting bounced in the first or second round. He's comparable to D'Antoni in that his system has a high focus on offense and little to no regard for defense. Ujiri is responsible for bringing the talent to Denver and making that team better post-Melo era. He deserves a ton of credit for that.

He's welcome with open arms in our front office.
Little to no regard for defense? Second time today this has been stated. It's just way off base. He has always demanded two-way play. Denver plays at a high pace, so they do give up more points than a lot of teams, but that is pace-related, not an indication of a disregard for defense. Karl is one of the best coaches in the game. You want to say he's over-rated because MJ beat him in the Finals, then go ahead. His teams have consistently over-achieved aside from one year in the playoffs.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 11:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
is doing it BIG.

Member
 
TDotRaptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Quebec
Posts: 410
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Little to no regard for defense? Second time today this has been stated. It's just way off base. He has always demanded two-way play. Denver plays at a high pace, so they do give up more points than a lot of teams, but that is pace-related, not an indication of a disregard for defense. Karl is one of the best coaches in the game. You want to say he's over-rated because MJ beat him in the Finals, then go ahead. His teams have consistently over-achieved aside from one year in the playoffs.
I'm sure every coach demands it, but as a coach you also have to be able to apply it and make it work. His team ranked dead last in points allowed this postseason, which included the Rockets, Bucks, and a depleted Lakers team. Think about that, and the fact that his teams are statistically one of the worst on the defensive end season after season (despite having players that know how to play good, or at least above average defense individually) for a second.

Is he a good coach? Yes, but he's overrated. You might call him one of the best in the league, but let's be honest here, outside of Pop, how many truly great coaches are there in the NBA today? I don't think their offensive style of play should be an excuse for their sub-par defense. Teams like the Heat and Thunder have proven that you can play with a fast paced offense and still be great on defense.

He's coached in the NBA for over twenty seasons. Jordan wasn't around for all of them. I personally wouldn't say he's over-achieved in the playoffs (if that's what you meant), considering he hasn't gotten past the second round since 2009. If you were referring to the regular season, I'll hand that to you as they've been quite the surprise since the Melo trade, but when Melo was around they were basically just a fringe playoff team. Again, I'm not trying to Knock on Karl, I just think he's overrated. He's had the talent over his career but never really capitalized with it. Picture how he'd look if he was coaching a team that didn't have a superstar, or a handful of all-star caliber players.
TDotRaptor is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 11:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 72,786
Representing:
Default

jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 11:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
MBailey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Posts: 2,374
Representing:
Default

Ujiri has done well in Denver and would be an upgrade from Colangelo at the moment but I'm not %100 sold he's the man to lead this franchise to the next level after what they've been through the past 5 years,its a much bigger challenge than his task with the Nuggets. I'd be happy but they shouldn't break the bank on him. What does all this mean for Coach Casey too? If they're gonna spend lots of money on a management position,it should be do bring in a solid coach like Stan Van Gundy or Jerry Sloan who can easily adapt to and help any GM,just my 2.
MBailey85 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 12:11 AM   #14 (permalink)
Waiting for DD's 1st in game wind mill Dunk

Senior Member

 
halphbreedballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: T.O.
Posts: 4,741
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by @BaileysBlitz View Post
Ujiri has done well in Denver and would be an upgrade from Colangelo at the moment but I'm not %100 sold he's the man to lead this franchise to the next level after what they've been through the past 5 years,its a much bigger challenge than his task with the Nuggets. I'd be happy but they shouldn't break the bank on him. What does all this mean for Coach Casey too? If they're gonna spend lots of money on a management position,it should be do bring in a solid coach like Stan Van Gundy or Jerry Sloan who can easily adapt to and help any GM,just my 2.
If we had Ujiri we quite possibly would have gotten something more than we got for CB4 IMO
halphbreedballer is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 12:20 AM   #15 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,485
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halphbreedballer View Post
If we had Ujiri we quite possibly would have gotten something more than we got for CB4 IMO
It's hard to tell actually, cause he was here at that time. He was fortunate to have been and learned from the Chris Bosh u-turn. Going to Denver where Melo basically asked to be traded is a very different situation than a Toronto scene that clings to any player with all-star potential. There was no decision to be made for Ujiri in Denver, where there may have been pressure on BC to accept Bosh's apparent willingness to stay.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 06:54 AM   #16 (permalink)
LX
with pink peppercorns

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,528
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDotRaptor View Post
I'm sure every coach demands it, but as a coach you also have to be able to apply it and make it work. His team ranked dead last in points allowed this postseason, which included the Rockets, Bucks, and a depleted Lakers team. Think about that, and the fact that his teams are statistically one of the worst on the defensive end season after season (despite having players that know how to play good, or at least above average defense individually) for a second.

Is he a good coach? Yes, but he's overrated. You might call him one of the best in the league, but let's be honest here, outside of Pop, how many truly great coaches are there in the NBA today? I don't think their offensive style of play should be an excuse for their sub-par defense. Teams like the Heat and Thunder have proven that you can play with a fast paced offense and still be great on defense.

He's coached in the NBA for over twenty seasons. Jordan wasn't around for all of them. I personally wouldn't say he's over-achieved in the playoffs (if that's what you meant), considering he hasn't gotten past the second round since 2009. If you were referring to the regular season, I'll hand that to you as they've been quite the surprise since the Melo trade, but when Melo was around they were basically just a fringe playoff team. Again, I'm not trying to Knock on Karl, I just think he's overrated. He's had the talent over his career but never really capitalized with it. Picture how he'd look if he was coaching a team that didn't have a superstar, or a handful of all-star caliber players.
The defense is not sub-par. You do realize that they play games with a lot more possessions due to pace right? You do also realize that they were hurt by injuries pretty badly this off-season right?

I'm not sure why you think any team with Melo should automatically be more than what they were. And the best season with Melo happened how? When he was able to get Melo to take a leadership role in committing to defense.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 07:19 AM   #17 (permalink)
the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor

The Mara sisters are hot!
 
Bill Haverchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,834
Representing:
Default

A little factual foundation:

-Denver was 2nd in pace during the regular season. They played fast.

-Denver was 11th in defensive rating (points per 100 possessions), so they were quite respectable on defense when you account for pace. When you don't account for pace, the stats are misleading, as LX pointed out. The Nuggets were 23rd in points given up.
Bill Haverchuck is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 07:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
LX
with pink peppercorns

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,528
Representing:
Default

They also improved as the season went on. Injuries to Faried and Lawson and losing Gallo altogether was challenging for a young team. And if anything, what hurt them in the playoffs was not really being built for half-court offense. If they convert McGee into a big with a shot and better pick and roll coverage, then they could handle any matchups much better. As it turned out, they met the worst possible matchup for them. They really couldn't use pace as a weapon against the Warriors. The thin air helped them a lot in game one, but by game 2 GS was acclimatized. Denver needs to find more of a two-way balance than they already have to be able to play more than one way successfully, but they have a lot to be able to build on already.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 03:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,045
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
They also improved as the season went on. Injuries to Faried and Lawson and losing Gallo altogether was challenging for a young team. And if anything, what hurt them in the playoffs was not really being built for half-court offense. If they convert McGee into a big with a shot and better pick and roll coverage, then they could handle any matchups much better. As it turned out, they met the worst possible matchup for them. They really couldn't use pace as a weapon against the Warriors. The thin air helped them a lot in game one, but by game 2 GS was acclimatized. Denver needs to find more of a two-way balance than they already have to be able to play more than one way successfully, but they have a lot to be able to build on already.
Yep. To start the year they had a DRTG of 108.5 (25th rank in the league), but in December and January had one closer to 105.5 (14th). February jumped back up to 109, but the final two months saw them post DRTG's of 103.6 and 104.2 (8th, 10th). Very impressive - especially considering their offensive dominance - fifth in the league throughout the year, and in those last two months, 112 and 113.5 (good for 3rd and 1st). That's a net rating of about +9 - Miami was a +8.6, OKC was a +9.8. No one else even came close - the rest of the contenders were back with Denver's full year in the +5 to +7 range. At the end of the year they were humming along like a favourite to win.
DanH is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 04:31 AM   #20 (permalink)
likes the consistency in the colangelo built raptors

Senior Member
 
rapsmannn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,419
Representing:
Default

i'm not sure TL is a guy anyone wants to work for, hence the way bc is treated,

if 2 million a year is the offer on masai then why would he stay with denver who is built for years to come for maybe 1.5 million dollars instead of coming it this situation

after listening to primetime sports interview will tl and i find it alarming, sounds like a guy on a power trip
rapsmannn is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24