The killer B's
Old 12-10-2009, 08:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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So I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but Bargnani seems to be a bigger piece to Bosh's game than most thought. With Bargnani on the floor, Bosh has a lot more space to operate since Bargs is usually on the perimeter which forces opposing centres to play on the outside as well. With the opposing centres glued to Bargnani, Bosh can run an iso and not worry about another big man challenging. So when the help comes, Bosh would still be able to finish easily/ pass out of the double easier in lieu of the help defence since he'll usually be a smaller guard. Thoughts?
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Yup.. we noticed. That's largely the point in BC sticking with him.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Yessir.

The Bucks were happy to load up the paint and take their chances with Rasho shooting jumpers all night.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Um, Bosh went off for 26 last night without Bargnani, the same thing he does last night.

No one is saying get rid of Bargnani or Calderon for free. They make about 18 million dollars together. That would mean if we traded them both and we're starting Rasho/Jack... we'd have a guy like Paul Pierce playing the 2.

Obviously we're going to be worth with 2 starters out. But Bosh does what he does regardless.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bmats7 View Post
Um, Bosh went off for 26 last night without Bargnani, the same thing he does last night.

No one is saying get rid of Bargnani or Calderon for free. They make about 18 million dollars together. That would mean if we traded them both and we're starting Rasho/Jack... we'd have a guy like Paul Pierce playing the 2.

Obviously we're going to be worth with 2 starters out. But Bosh does what he does regardless.
Perhaps against the Bucks and Wolves but not elite teams. Elite teams know how to shut him down and that's easier without having to worry about Bargnani.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Bosh is just that good that he can score 26. He was getting double and triple teams there.
Of course Bargs is an important piece.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Um, Bosh went off for 26 last night without Bargnani, the same thing he does last night.

No one is saying get rid of Bargnani or Calderon for free. They make about 18 million dollars together. That would mean if we traded them both and we're starting Rasho/Jack... we'd have a guy like Paul Pierce playing the 2.

Obviously we're going to be worth with 2 starters out. But Bosh does what he does regardless.

You really have a hard-on against those two guys, eh?

Secondly, despite a great effort by Bosh, we still lost. Thus, a moot point. The asshole was still laughing it up on the bench at the end. As well, why so defensive about Bosh? The OP didn't allude to him being a bad player.

The only thing I've noticed the last two games is a lack of communication and organization on the offense, something Jose is good at.

As well, last night we lacked any perimeter shooting, something Bargnani is great for. Insert gnarl, and SW&N's comments as well to this.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bmats7 View Post
Um, Bosh went off for 26 last night without Bargnani, the same thing he does last night.

No one is saying get rid of Bargnani or Calderon for free. They make about 18 million dollars together. That would mean if we traded them both and we're starting Rasho/Jack... we'd have a guy like Paul Pierce playing the 2.

Obviously we're going to be worth with 2 starters out. But Bosh does what he does regardless.
Took him 7-16 shooting big guy. Know why? His drive game was taken away. Despite being guarded by Andrew Bogut. Know why? Because Bargnani wasn't out there to spread the floor for him. The Bucks were more than content to get comfy in the paint with Rasho and Amir out there.

As much as people say Bosh is better without Andrea on the floor, it couldn't be further from the truth. Bosh plays so much more efficiently with Andrea on the floor. With an open floor Bosh has the drive to scare the defense and the jump shot to keep the defense honest. When that drive is taken away, like it was last night, he's forced to be a jump shooter and his efficiency takes a hit as a result.

You don't realize what you've got till it's gone baby.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Perhaps against the Bucks and Wolves but not elite teams. Elite teams know how to shut him down and that's easier without having to worry about Bargnani.
I would have to say that last nights loss has nothing to do with AB or Jose being out of the line up...

We were close enough to win but our team just gave up towards the end...

If there is one person who should have stepped up to make the game closer last night, especially toward the end of the 4th quater it was Hedo!! & to be honest man Hedo has sucked, & at this point he looks like a very bad signing,
He was brought in here to be the #2 scoring option on this team and most of the time he is like the 4th option & it blows!
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I think in games like last night with Bargs and Jose out, Triano has tobe looking more to Bosh early. In the hopes of just drawing fouls, even if it is ugly. The guy is a monster at getting to the line this season.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The sets were cleary congested without Bargs (and Jose)...
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Well if thats the case then Bosh's should of past the ball around more...

I still blame Hedo for not stepping up though...
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Bargnani is such a diamond in the rough isn't he.


Their aren't any other big men who could possibly spread the floor for Bosh.

Only one.

Give me a big guy who can hit the open 15 footer, but hangs his hat on doing the dirty work.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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To sum it up:

No Bargnani = less area for Bosh too work with

With Bargnani = Opens the floor up for Bosh where we can get some easy points down low or 3s from outside.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Bargnani is such a diamond in the rough isn't he.


Their aren't any other big men who could possibly spread the floor for Bosh.

Only one.

Give me a big guy who can hit the open 15 footer, but hangs his hat on doing the dirty work.
name one that makes less than 8 million (not on a rookie scale) ... or one that his team doesn't consider him a cornerstone.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
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name one that makes less than 8 million (not on a rookie scale) ... or one that his team doesn't consider him a cornerstone.

The point is, you don't need a super-talented 7 footer with incredible range to spread the floor.

Kurt Thomas, Mcdyess. Brad Miller.

Their are fare less talented players than Andrea who are just as capable at spreading the floor by hitting from a closer range, while focusing on doing the dirty work. Which is what really helps the big guns out. Doing the dirty work.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:46 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Spreading the floor in the NBA is not a talent.

Their are a lot of bigmen who can shoot the basketball.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:27 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Spreading the floor in the NBA is not a talent.

Their are a lot of bigmen who can shoot the basketball.
Not from the 3 pt area and not as consistently from their as Bargs. Other teams know he can hit that shot so the opposing C has to come out to guard him and far enough that it is hard for them to get back and block Bosh if he is driving to the rim.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:31 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I would have to say that last nights loss has nothing to do with AB or Jose being out of the line up...

We were close enough to win but our team just gave up towards the end...

If there is one person who should have stepped up to make the game closer last night, especially toward the end of the 4th quater it was Hedo!! & to be honest man Hedo has sucked, & at this point he looks like a very bad signing,
He was brought in here to be the #2 scoring option on this team and most of the time he is like the 4th option & it blows!
We were down by 20 in the third quarter, how do you call that "close enough to win"?

Two things seem pretty apparent after the last two games:

Bargs > Turk and Jose > Jack
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The point is, you don't need a super-talented 7 footer with incredible range to spread the floor.

Kurt Thomas, Mcdyess. Brad Miller.

Their are fare less talented players than Andrea who are just as capable at spreading the floor by hitting from a closer range, while focusing on doing the dirty work. Which is what really helps the big guns out. Doing the dirty work.
at this stage in their career, Bargnani is a superior player to all those 3, at both ends of the floor. There's a reason they are 20 mpg players, if that, for losing teams (except dice). And they were never even close as good as shooters as Andrea is (maybe except for miller).

And Bargnani is not a pure offensive player anymore, he's made improvements in rebounding to the point that beyond stats, he's not a liability anymore in that area. He can get tough rebounds in traffic when it matters, and had quite a few games where he got 3 or more OR. He's not a great rebounder, but he's becoming decent, and probably will continue to improve.

The only place where he's lacking is his defense - but calling Andrea an uni-dimensional player who's only advantage is shooting is incorrect.
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