Kanter Doesn't Want to Come to Toronto - Page 7
Old 05-22-2011, 10:32 PM   #121 (permalink)
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Yep - if he's the best available.
Ask Orlando. They did just that...
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:44 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Oh man, why I need to do that? It looks Colangelo read my posts and then edits his draft order. Yes I like Jonas, but I try to be unbiased. I want to believe Jonas surpassed him, but it's not true.
Maybe you all right and Enes is not a good fit here. as I said before, he always wants to be a PF, while Raptors needs a true center. But you need best talent.

Kanter wants to play in the NBA and has no connections with European leagues at all. He already confirmed that he wouldnt sign with Euro teams even if lockout happens. So, no way he pulls a Rubio... But if lockout happens, Kanter stays for another year without basketball, so it's actually a bad thing... Sometimes I think he has serious health issues and he hides something... Maybe because of this NBA teams avoids him. It should be the only reason, he is better than any big in draft.
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:13 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Oh man, why I need to do that? It looks Colangelo read my posts and then edits his draft order. Yes I like Jonas, but I try to be unbiased. I want to believe Jonas surpassed him, but it's not true.
Maybe you all right and Enes is not a good fit here. as I said before, he always wants to be a PF, while Raptors needs a true center. But you need best talent.

Kanter wants to play in the NBA and has no connections with European leagues at all. He already confirmed that he wouldnt sign with Euro teams even if lockout happens. So, no way he pulls a Rubio... But if lockout happens, Kanter stays for another year without basketball, so it's actually a bad thing... Sometimes I think he has serious health issues and he hides something... Maybe because of this NBA teams avoids him. It should be the only reason, he is better than any big in draft.
yep - you nailed it. This is not a typical european player under contract situation at all. And I really suspect that the shenanigans can be blamed on a team or teams that want him, as much as anything else. And yeah - the time off and possible health issues are the only real concerns.
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:20 PM   #124 (permalink)
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been watching clips of JV, loving his intensity in the paint (including rebounding), and the emphatic dunks...obviously far from my first choice for this draft, but it wouldnt be the end of the world if we drafted him imo
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:25 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Oh man, why I need to do that? It looks Colangelo read my posts and then edits his draft order. Yes I like Jonas, but I try to be unbiased. I want to believe Jonas surpassed him, but it's not true.
Maybe you all right and Enes is not a good fit here. as I said before, he always wants to be a PF, while Raptors needs a true center. But you need best talent.

Kanter wants to play in the NBA and has no connections with European leagues at all. He already confirmed that he wouldnt sign with Euro teams even if lockout happens. So, no way he pulls a Rubio... But if lockout happens, Kanter stays for another year without basketball, so it's actually a bad thing... Sometimes I think he has serious health issues and he hides something... Maybe because of this NBA teams avoids him. It should be the only reason, he is better than any big in draft.
Excellent points about the euro connection but he is playing at the combine no? I'm not sure if he has. You're right about the lock-out, it's a very bad thing for Kanter as that would be well over 2 years without competitive ball and a lot of missed development. I'm still hoping Utah takes him at #3 to replace Okur.

Jonas' stats for 2010/11 as an 18 year old:

33games - 20.6min - 66.8fg% - 100/3pg% -7.3rpg - 1.8bpg - 11.5ppg (Lithuanian League)
15games - 14.9mpg - 70.8fg% - 0/3pg% - 5.8rpg - .7bpg - 7.7ppg (Euroleague)

Thats pretty impressive to do that in 20mpg/15mpg and honestly, I don't think Jonas is done growing yet. His per 40 is ridiculous for 18. He could very well be as good as Sabonis (crossed fingers without the bad feet). Jonas' best stats came when Sarunas came on board which is why I think he would do well with JC with the PnR. Actually Bayless too for that matter.

In the end, I hope Kanter does impress enough at the combine to go top 4 in the draft. I really like the idea of having Jonas and what he brings though he might not get past the Cavs at #4. I'm hoping the draft goes Irving, Williams, Knight, Kanter, Jonas.

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Old 05-23-2011, 12:16 AM   #126 (permalink)
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Excellent points about the euro connection but he is playing at the combine no? I'm not sure if he has. You're right about the lock-out, it's a very bad thing for Kanter as that would be well over 2 years without competitive ball and a lot of missed development. I'm still hoping Utah takes him at #3 to replace Okur.

Jonas' stats for 2010/11 as an 18 year old:

33games - 20.6min - 66.8fg% - 100/3pg% -7.3rpg - 1.8bpg - 11.5ppg (Lithuanian League)
15games - 14.9mpg - 70.8fg% - 0/3pg% - 5.8rpg - .7bpg - 7.7ppg (Euroleague)

Thats pretty impressive to do that in 20mpg/15mpg and honestly, I don't think Jonas is done growing yet. His per 40 is ridiculous for 18. He could very well be as good as Sabonis (crossed fingers without the bad feet). Jonas' best stats came when Sarunas came on board which is why I think he would do well with JC with the PnR. Actually Bayless too for that matter.

In the end, I hope Kanter does impress enough at the combine to go top 4 in the draft. I really like the idea of having Jonas and what he brings though he might not get past the Cavs at #4. I'm hoping the draft goes Irving, Williams, Knight, Kanter, Jonas.

Good post. I don't need any numbers, I know Jonas very well. I want to point his rebound numbers in Euroleague (his LKL numbers looks even better, but it's lithuanian league, nothing special...). 5'8 rebounds per 15 minutes. Thats unbelievable. Imagine Euroleague basketball. 40 minutes, not 48, low tempo game, better FG% = way less rebounds. Actually, Euroleague leader in rebounds this season was another Lithuanian Paulius Jankunas with only 6,8 rebounds per game. So imagine Jonas playing at least 25 minutes per game, not 15, his rebounding numbers would be dominant. In fact, Jonas was second most efficient center per minute this season. Amazing for a 18 year old guy, who never played against such a guys before. It proves Jonas can adapt and translate his game in the higher level.
His weaknesses is defense, strength, limited offensive game and fouls. Jonas compared to Noah, because he hustles every time and has amazing 7'6 wingspan. He can be great defender, but now, he is bad... But my biggest concern is fouls. He is true foul prone. Maybe it's because he is weaker and unexperienced?



Finally about Enes. Yes, he is in combine. And people inside say hes amazing. Hes by far better than any other C there and he looks way more athletic and smooth than people thought.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:43 AM   #127 (permalink)
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I figured you knew the numbers, they're more for others. Interesting news about Kanter and puts the Raps in an interesting spot. If the Draft goes Irving, Williams, Knight, Jonas then does that mean the Raps have to take him as BPA? Or does the angry bias of Rap fans (including myself) for him turning the team down for an interview negate that? Yikes, if he's as good as reported....he might leave the Raps no choice but to draft him. Will he play and not resign in a few years? I'd hope he'd be pro enough to do that if only we can get something of value in return.

If he's top 3 talent then the draft could go Irving, Williams, Kanter, Jonas, Walker or Knight?? Then I would really hope to swing a deal with GS for Bargs/Filler/2012pick for Ellis/2011pick and take Bismack. I like Walker or Knight, Ellis, DD, Davis, Bismack as a team to build for the future.

Of course if we had Kanter at #5 the same trade would give us Bayless, Ellis, DD, Davis, Kanter/Bismack. Though GS could ask for Kanter/Filler/2012pick for Ellis/2011 pick and go Bayless, Ellis, DD, Davis, Bismack with Bargs off the bench. I could live with any of these options. There are so many.

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Old 05-23-2011, 12:55 AM   #128 (permalink)
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hehe we could draft Kanter and trade Kanter/filler/second rd pick to Minny for Webster/Flynn/2012 pick since Minny would have 4 SF's (and there is a good crop of SF's next year). I could live with Flynn, DD, Webster, Davis, Bargs. Although with Beasley and Webster Minny could go Kanter lol I could see that.

WOW....this draft and one trade could really alter this team

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Old 05-23-2011, 08:51 AM   #129 (permalink)
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hehe we could draft Kanter and trade Kanter/filler/second rd pick to Minny for Webster/Flynn/2012 pick since Minny would have 4 SF's (and there is a good crop of SF's next year). I could live with Flynn, DD, Webster, Davis, Bargs. Although with Beasley and Webster Minny could go Kanter lol I could see that.

WOW....this draft and one trade could really alter this team
Minny doesn't own their first round pick next year.

LA Clippers currently have the rights to it. The real bummer...it's unprotected.
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:18 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Is the best available player the best possible payoff from a gamble?

The question is, which of Valanciunas or Kanter will end up being the "bruiser" that Bayless spoke of or the inside "presence" that Colangelo spoke of. It could be neither ultimately, so I think they should stick with picking up the best available PG and go for a known commodity available around the league at C. We have not had much luck finding that guy at C. One more failed gamble will be crippling. At least the 2nd and 3rd rated PG have demonstrated skills playing in North America.

I say we send Kanter a visit Toronto travel package and move on.

And yes, that is the CN Tower on the left in the background. ha-haaaa!



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Old 05-23-2011, 01:35 PM   #131 (permalink)
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If you want a bruiser, Bismack is your guy, probably not with the #5 pick though. It will be hard to find a bruising center through trade imo as so many teams need one. Knight or Walker will be there so we should take one and trade for a lower pick to nab Bismack.

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Old 05-23-2011, 01:49 PM   #132 (permalink)
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If you want a bruiser, Bismack is your guy, probably not with the #5 pick though. It will be had to find a bruising center through trade imo as so many teams need one. Knight or Walker will be there so we should take one and trade for a lower pick to nab Bismack.
Bismack is a bruiser and that is what this team needs. With all the soft years of Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani, everyone should want Bismack on this team.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:21 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Is the best available player the best possible payoff from a gamble?

The question is, which of Valanciunas or Kanter will end up being the "bruiser" that Bayless spoke of or the inside "presence" that Colangelo spoke of. It could be neither ultimately, so I think they should stick with picking up the best available PG and go for a known commodity available around the league at C. We have not had much luck finding that guy at C. One more failed gamble will be crippling. At least the 2nd and 3rd rated PG have demonstrated skills playing in North America.
Walker and Knight will both have NBA careers. The problem is that neither of them projects to be an all star, a borderline all star, or maybe not even a starter.

Walker's biggest issue is his size. Generally, players of his stature need to learn how to distribute the ball effectively in order to ensure a starting position in the NBA. He doesn't know how to do that. Will he learn? Who knows?

Knight has a perfect build for a PG, but his skill set is all wrong. He's not a good distributor, and he commits far too many turnovers. Are these issues he can grow out of? Who knows?

If these two prospects don't adjust, they'll still have careers. Just, it'll be off the bench. Neither of them is even a guaranteed starter with the skill sets they bring to the draft.

Add to that the fact that they are competing for playing time with a huge list of point guards currently active in the NBA who are much more talented than they are, and you can see why teams might not want to waste a high pick on them.

This year's crop of international big men, however, is very strong. Enes Kanter should be starting from day 1. He has the body and skill set to compete immediately.

Jonas Valanciunas has the skill set, but he lacks the size. He can (probably will) fill out over the next couple of years. He has gained something like 20-30 lbs over the last year and a half. Size is an issue that an NBA trainer doesn't see as major as something like bad court vision in a point guard. Because size is relatively easy to fix (especially for a 19 year old), it just takes some time and work.

Bismack Biyombo can play a role off the bench immediately. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a solid starter. He may be the next Ben Wallace, but Ben Wallace only stayed on the court because he was surrounded by scorers. If Bismack drasically improves on offense, or he just finds the right fit, he could be a starter.

In the end, though, the final analysis is by comparison with their peers.

You are looking at a league absolutely packed with guards more talented than Knight and Walker. Really.

You are also looking at a league with almost a complete lack of quality centers. Really.

There happen to be 2 quality centers in this years draft at around where the Raptors will be picking.

And the idea is to draft the mediocre guards over the above average centers? How does that make any sense?!?!?!

And the next part of the plan is to make a quality center appear out of thin air by free agency? Who is this magical available center, exactly?
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:45 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Michal Jordan stepped off the golf course or away from the craps table for just 5 minutes, or we'd have had Tyson Chandler here and we saw Turk leave when he was near useless as a starter. I am not particularly shocked anymore that Colangelo can make deals.

As for the bigs, because they have not played here, I am not convinced. The workouts, or lack thereof in Toronto should say something about that. As of now, they are project big men to me, one with suspect knees on a very big body. The other I have seen do nothing but dunk on and school undersized players in sub-par leagues.

No one says we ultimately keep guys big or small, but they will be assets that when paired with other assets could net some certainty.

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Old 05-23-2011, 08:19 PM   #135 (permalink)
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Walker and Knight will both have NBA careers. The problem is that neither of them projects to be an all star, a borderline all star, or maybe not even a starter.

Walker's biggest issue is his size. Generally, players of his stature need to learn how to distribute the ball effectively in order to ensure a starting position in the NBA. He doesn't know how to do that. Will he learn? Who knows?

Knight has a perfect build for a PG, but his skill set is all wrong. He's not a good distributor, and he commits far too many turnovers. Are these issues he can grow out of? Who knows?

If these two prospects don't adjust, they'll still have careers. Just, it'll be off the bench. Neither of them is even a guaranteed starter with the skill sets they bring to the draft.

Add to that the fact that they are competing for playing time with a huge list of point guards currently active in the NBA who are much more talented than they are, and you can see why teams might not want to waste a high pick on them.

This year's crop of international big men, however, is very strong. Enes Kanter should be starting from day 1. He has the body and skill set to compete immediately.

Jonas Valanciunas has the skill set, but he lacks the size. He can (probably will) fill out over the next couple of years. He has gained something like 20-30 lbs over the last year and a half. Size is an issue that an NBA trainer doesn't see as major as something like bad court vision in a point guard. Because size is relatively easy to fix (especially for a 19 year old), it just takes some time and work.

Bismack Biyombo can play a role off the bench immediately. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a solid starter. He may be the next Ben Wallace, but Ben Wallace only stayed on the court because he was surrounded by scorers. If Bismack drasically improves on offense, or he just finds the right fit, he could be a starter.

In the end, though, the final analysis is by comparison with their peers.

You are looking at a league absolutely packed with guards more talented than Knight and Walker. Really.

You are also looking at a league with almost a complete lack of quality centers. Really.

There happen to be 2 quality centers in this years draft at around where the Raptors will be picking.

And the idea is to draft the mediocre guards over the above average centers? How does that make any sense?!?!?!

And the next part of the plan is to make a quality center appear out of thin air by free agency? Who is this magical available center, exactly?
I doubt any quality FA C would want to come here. The only types of FA's that come to a rebuilding team are fringe guys trying to hang on/guys looking to rebuild their careers/old guys at the end of their careers who would settle for 1-year deals.

If we draft a C, I guess Bargnani and Davis would start at C/PF initially with Jonas/Biyombo/Kanter coming off the bench. I kind of wonder if you'd get any offense at all if you have Biyombo and Davis as your starting C/PF duo. Would any team really need to gameplan for them defensively?
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:56 PM   #136 (permalink)
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If we draft a C, I guess Bargnani and Davis would start at C/PF initially with Jonas/Biyombo/Kanter coming off the bench. I kind of wonder if you'd get any offense at all if you have Biyombo and Davis as your starting C/PF duo. Would any team really need to gameplan for them defensively?
A rotation of Bargs/Biyombo/Davis might work. I'd start Biyombo for his D - let him be super aggressive and bring Bargs in early if Biyombo gets into foul trouble.

In my opinion, Davis can become a good player on offense as well as defense. I think his peak will be around 17-21pts/game. I don't think he'll be a match up problem like Bargs can be, but he'll create points consistently, and the opposition won't forget about him either.

That plan is a projection, though. You're right that Biyombo would come off the bench initially. He would basically replace Reggie Evans in the rotation to begin with. Then, if he progresses he would start taking Amir's minutes as 3rd big. After that, if he can really shut down opponents consistently, he would earn the starters role.

The plan for Valanciunas would be similar.

Kanter, on the other hand, would be a couple of good games away from being the 3rd big. Then, as soon as Bargs went into a shooting slump I'd move Kanter into the starting spot.

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Old 05-24-2011, 10:43 AM   #137 (permalink)
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Jonas highlights.

Donatas.

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Old 05-24-2011, 11:19 AM   #138 (permalink)
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Donatas Motiejunas... Yeah, I bet Colangelo can't wait to draft him with the top 5 pick.
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Old 05-25-2011, 05:42 AM   #139 (permalink)
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Jonas Valančiūnas mix in LKL FINAL.

And European U18 mix.

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Old 05-25-2011, 01:15 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Apparently there was a miscommunication and Kanter will in fact meet and work out with Toronto early next month.
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