JV vs Kanter - Page 2
Old 11-10-2013, 01:17 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
I like JV's attitude, work ethic, length, instincts, rebounding, scoring touch, ft%. Ultimately I think JV will end up being the most well rounded player of the 3.
i agree, he doesn't really excel at anything, but he is doing little bit of everything. I also think his blocking is really underrated
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:26 AM   #22 (permalink)
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i agree, he doesn't really excel at anything, but he is doing little bit of everything. I also think his blocking is really underrated
meh, he's averaging 9.5/7 in 24min, so not excelling at anything is a little ridiculous.

Give him a consistent 30-35min and 12-13 shots per game he would average:

15ppg
9-10rpg
1.5-2blks
54 FG%
75FT%


IMO

his versatility offensively is a great strength, he's got a decent mid-range game, a hook shot, can use both hands, can hit FT's.............all that and he's still pretty raw.

Last edited by jeffb; 11-10-2013 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:43 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
meh, he's averaging 9.5/7 in 24min, so not excelling at anything is a little ridiculous.

Give him a consistent 30-35min and 12-13 shots per game he would average:

15ppg
9-10rpg
1.5-2blks
54 FG%
75FT%


IMO

his versatility offensively is a great strength, he's got a decent mid-range game, a hook shot, can use both hands, can hit FT's.............all that and he's still pretty raw.
Yea but I mean it doesn't jump out at you like,he is amazing: ''scorer'' or ''rebounder'' or ''defender'' etc. he does it all fairly well.
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:47 AM   #24 (permalink)
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3 rebounds in 23 minutes is taking him to school?


It's funny, prior to the Indiana game I was looking at JV's numbers and was impressed that he was averaging 9.8ppg/8.5rpg considering he was only averaging 23mpg. The last two games have lowered his rebounding numbers but he's still averaging 9.5ppg/7rpg and in 23-24mpg. If he got 30-32mpg he would be averaging a double double imo.
JV and Kanter did a good job boxing each other out. They basically eliminated each other on the boards.

People look to much into basic stats and don't pay attention to what is really going on in the game.
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Old 11-10-2013, 02:07 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Yea but I mean it doesn't jump out at you like,he is amazing: ''scorer'' or ''rebounder'' or ''defender'' etc. he does it all fairly well.
I'd take davis and drummond over JV but there's no way I'd take kanter. When I look at the latter, I see a less strong version of pekovic or less skilled version of Al Jefferson. Both decent centers, but with some pretty big warts. JV can easily be a top 3 players on a championship team, and pek/kanter I really doubt could become.
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:24 AM   #26 (permalink)
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are you talking about ed davis?

JV is a beast, he changes shots, he recovers well for other defenders, his help defense is great, I don't know if you noticed this but defenders wont leave Jonas on offense because he is a such a threat for offensive rebounds or causing havoc allowing amir or rudy get a board

there is a lot to like about JV,

JV and Ross are the only reason why I care about this team this year

Last edited by rapsmannn; 11-10-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 11-10-2013, 11:37 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Anthony Davis, not Ed, I'm assuming
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Old 11-10-2013, 11:57 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Casey needs to give JV more minutes and he needs to stop thanking him for the entire 4th quarter of games. that might help them along in the development area of things....
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rapsmannn View Post
are you talking about ed davis?

JV is a beast, he changes shots, he recovers well for other defenders, his help defense is great, I don't know if you noticed this but defenders wont leave Jonas on offense because he is a such a threat for offensive rebounds or causing havoc allowing amir or rudy get a board

there is a lot to like about JV,

JV and Ross are the only reason why I care about this team this year
anthony, I'm talking about the new crop of big men coming in the past 3 years. There's also thompson who is playing well and you may even include guys like favours.
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:06 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I think JV's potential lies in his offence; he's so raw and still his offence would likely scale quite well with an increase in minutes/touches. His motor and basketball IQ are way up there and if he can ever stop getting called on ghost fouls there's no reason he couldn't be a top five scoring centre. Kanter looks like he'll be a more traditional centre, bruising rebounder who you don't want to be your third scorer, let alone the focus of an offense.
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:40 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I'd take davis and drummond over JV but there's no way I'd take kanter. When I look at the latter, I see a less strong version of pekovic or less skilled version of Al Jefferson. Both decent centers, but with some pretty big warts. JV can easily be a top 3 players on a championship team, and pek/kanter I really doubt could become.
Your love for Drummond is out of hand if you would take him over Valanciunus. His free throws are enough of a reason why.

As for Davis, he's not nearly as efficient (which is worth so much more than people think) and as good in the low post but he gets a lot of attention. I don't know that he's all that much better right now but I'm sure he will outclass JV by a mile one day.

Did you just compare favours to JV too?
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Old 11-11-2013, 02:41 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Fun facts about usage in the first half of a game versus 2nd half of a game:

1) Jonas Valanciunas - 1st half: 6.1 FGA, 15.3 MPG. 2nd half: 2.0 FGA, 10.0 MPG.

2) Toronto Raptors - 1st half: 106.2 ORTG (5th overall). 2nd half: 101.1 ORTG (18th overall).

3) Toronto Raptors - 1st half: 95.2 DRTG (10th overall). 2nd half: 106.8 DRTG (23rd overall).

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Old 11-11-2013, 06:26 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Your love for Drummond is out of hand if you would take him over Valanciunus. His free throws are enough of a reason why.

As for Davis, he's not nearly as efficient (which is worth so much more than people think) and as good in the low post but he gets a lot of attention. I don't know that he's all that much better right now but I'm sure he will outclass JV by a mile one day.

Did you just compare favours to JV too?
listen, this debate has been going for ages and I really don't want to restart it. Suffice to say that so far this season, Drummond is shooting 1FT per game, despite his percentage being so low. So all the talk about teams fouling him on purpose is clearly overblown.

as far as Davis, yeah, he's so inefficient he has a TS% 2 points over JV and is second in the league in PER. And 2nd in the league in blocked shots and 7th in steals ... He also rebounds at nearly 25% the rate JV does (per minute) and blocks more than twice as many shots per minute compared to JV. And he passes the eye test as well. You'd have to be a really, really big homer to think those two are in the same class right now.

Finally, derrick favours is a much better defensive player than JV, a better rebounder, a better shot blocker and loses on offense. RIGHT NOW most would take favours over JV, but that may change in the future, DF has more experience behind him and JV has a chance to catch up.

JV's big advantage is that it has a chance to be a two-way player, which for drummond and favours may never happen. However, until that happens, the last two have much bigger defensive presence NOW, while JV's offense lies somewhere in (not to distant let's hope) future.
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:51 PM   #34 (permalink)
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listen, this debate has been going for ages and I really don't want to restart it. Suffice to say that so far this season, Drummond is shooting 1FT per game, despite his percentage being so low. So all the talk about teams fouling him on purpose is clearly overblown.

as far as Davis, yeah, he's so inefficient he has a TS% 2 points over JV and is second in the league in PER. And 2nd in the league in blocked shots and 7th in steals ... He also rebounds at nearly 25% the rate JV does (per minute) and blocks more than twice as many shots per minute compared to JV. And he passes the eye test as well. You'd have to be a really, really big homer to think those two are in the same class right now.

Finally, derrick favours is a much better defensive player than JV, a better rebounder, a better shot blocker and loses on offense. RIGHT NOW most would take favours over JV, but that may change in the future, DF has more experience behind him and JV has a chance to catch up.

JV's big advantage is that it has a chance to be a two-way player, which for drummond and favours may never happen. However, until that happens, the last two have much bigger defensive presence NOW, while JV's offense lies somewhere in (not to distant let's hope) future.
Always good to see objectivity, logic and stats
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Old 11-11-2013, 09:26 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Fun facts about usage in the first half of a game versus 2nd half of a game:

1) Jonas Valanciunas - 1st half: 6.1 FGA, 15.3 MPG. 2nd half: 2.0 FGA, 10.0 MPG.

2) Toronto Raptors - 1st half: 106.2 ORTG (5th overall). 2nd half: 101.1 ORTG (18th overall).

3) Toronto Raptors - 1st half: 95.2 DRTG (10th overall). 2nd half: 106.8 DRTG (23rd overall).

I wonder how many wins Casey has fucked us over with.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:29 AM   #36 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

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I wonder how many wins Casey has fucked us over with.
At this point? I'd day 5 possible wins he's fucked up
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:38 AM   #37 (permalink)
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just to further enhance my argument, favours goes 21/13/3 bpg on 15 shots and drummond goes 16/16 on 9 shots. JV in perhaps his best game of the season goes 10/13 on 9 shots ... JV has not had a game in his entire career like the first two posted.

and yet, I think his future is very bright, second only to drummond and davis in his generation, future players notwithstanding. However, he's still some 1-2 seasons away from getting there because his strength will be offense and skill, which take longer to develop than defense based on physical attributes.

JV is not in the same league with davis/drummond/favours from an athletic point of view, so he has to do it with skill.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:43 AM   #38 (permalink)
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just to further enhance my argument, favours goes 21/13/3 bpg on 15 shots and drummond goes 16/16 on 9 shots. JV in perhaps his best game of the season goes 10/13 on 9 shots ... JV has not had a game in his entire career like the first two posted.

and yet, I think his future is very bright, second only to drummond and davis in his generation, future players notwithstanding. However, he's still some 1-2 seasons away from getting there because his strength will be offense and skill, which take longer to develop than defense based on physical attributes.

JV is not in the same league with davis/drummond/favours from an athletic point of view, so he has to do it with skill.
the same can be said for Kanter.... there are a lot of good young bigs with potential in the league right now. It's fun to watch them grow and develop.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:50 AM   #39 (permalink)
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3 rebounds in 23 minutes is taking him to school?


It's funny, prior to the Indiana game I was looking at JV's numbers and was impressed that he was averaging 9.8ppg/8.5rpg considering he was only averaging 23mpg. The last two games have lowered his rebounding numbers but he's still averaging 9.5ppg/7rpg and in 23-24mpg. If he got 30-32mpg he would be averaging a double double imo.
... Nikola Vucevic Orl - PF,C, better than both.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:53 AM   #40 (permalink)
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... Nikola Vucevic Orl - PF,C, better than both.
he's also three years older.... but right now, he sure is.
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