JV > Bargs (yep, already) - Page 6
Old 11-02-2012, 11:41 AM   #101 (permalink)
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meh. You're selling low. Gay is good, but he's got holes too.
Low?


Dude, we'll never get a player as good as Rudy Gay for a package of Bargnani and our backup PG so i don't know what you're smoking right now.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:47 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Not sure how having Amir or Gray in the game instead of Jonas will change that TBH.



To be clear, it's not that I expected Bargs to be something that he wasn't (although I DID hope that he'd be a better rebounder than he's shown)... It's that I wanted a player with Jonas' skills to pair with Bosh... or I wanted a wing player. That's it.

I'm still annoyed though that players like Love and Ryan can shoot 3s, grab boards AND play with energy and Bargs can only seem to do 1 of the 3 at any 1 point in time.
amir is better offensively than JV, he can hit a mid range jumper with reasonable accuracy these days and he's a better P&R player (for some reason, our PGs don't seem to cooperate well with JV on the P&R - could be a trust issue, but he's never getting the ball when he rolls). JV sets some nice screens, but he doesn't trust his shot and around the basket you won't get too many chances in crunch time when teams are more focused and the offense goes in half-court mode.


as far as pairing him with bosh, I think it's pretty clear that Bosh was never the lead guy, so I'm not sure what we'd have achieved with that. A few more wins maybe. For us to be a successful team (title contention is completely out of the question with the current generation), JV would have to become an all star at some point in the next 3-4 years. Otherwise, we're at best a 45 wins team, probably worse.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:47 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Low?


Dude, we'll never get a player as good as Rudy Gay for a package of Bargnani and our backup PG so i don't know what you're smoking right now.
what happened to the picks? I think you're selling Bargnani for less than he's worth around the league. Gay plays off of Randolph and Gasol.... Bargnani has played off of Amir, Gray, and some shitty SF. Whatever, we disagree.... I like Rudy, but Memphis is a good team without him. Last year we were turrible without Bargnani. Am I wrong on this point?
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:48 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Low?


Dude, we'll never get a player as good as Rudy Gay for a package of Bargnani and our backup PG so i don't know what you're smoking right now.
oh, he's not smoking, he's drinking some
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:49 AM   #105 (permalink)
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amir is better offensively than JV, he can hit a mid range jumper with reasonable accuracy these days and he's a better P&R player (for some reason, our PGs don't seem to cooperate well with JV on the P&R - could be a trust issue, but he's never getting the ball when he rolls). JV sets some nice screens, but he doesn't trust his shot and around the basket you won't get too many chances in crunch time when teams are more focused and the offense goes in half-court mode.


as far as pairing him with bosh, I think it's pretty clear that Bosh was never the lead guy, so I'm not sure what we'd have achieved with that. A few more wins maybe. For us to be a successful team (title contention is completely out of the question with the current generation), JV would have to become an all star at some point in the next 3-4 years. Otherwise, we're at best a 45 wins team, probably worse.
JV still has to become an allstar or else we'll be a middling team going forward. Pairing him with Bargnani or Bosh is a moot argument. It's all for junk if we continue to only have wings as one dimensional as Joey Graham.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:51 AM   #106 (permalink)
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oh, he's not smoking, he's drinking some
I remember when I thought that reference was funny too.... oh I miss highschool.

I'm just making a case against giving up too much.... if the deal was actually on the table, I'd strongly consider it.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:52 AM   #107 (permalink)
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what happened to the picks? I think you're selling Bargnani for less than he's worth around the league. Gay plays off of Randolph and Gasol.... Bargnani has played off of Amir, Gray, and some shitty SF. Whatever, we disagree.... I like Rudy, but Memphis is a good team without him. Last year we were turrible without Bargnani. Am I wrong on this point?
None of that says Bargnani is better than Gay in any way. So i don't know what you're getting at. Bargnani is on a shittier team that Gay is....ok.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:57 AM   #108 (permalink)
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None of that says Bargnani is better than Gay in any way. So i don't know what you're getting at. Bargnani is on a shittier team that Gay is....ok.
Didn't say he was better.... was saying it's necessary to realize that Gay has played with a much stronger contingent.... and they've also looked great without him. We've looked abysmal without Bargnani..... just one aspect.

My view may not make sense to you, but maybe I'm just not sold on Ed or Amir as frontliners.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:02 PM   #109 (permalink)
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I remember when I thought that reference was funny too.... oh I miss highschool.

I'm just making a case against giving up too much.... if the deal was actually on the table, I'd strongly consider it.
I'm in 3rd year university fyi. So, apparently it's "childish" or "immature" to use images. You always give out indirect or direct shots.

Anywho, listen, Jose isn't worth that much, he's there to make up the #s. Bargs - I arguably dislike him less now than DD cuz of that contract and because he has some sort of skill unlike DD. He is much much much easier to deal than DD atm. A trade like the one above would be a godsend to this team.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:06 PM   #110 (permalink)
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I'm in 3rd year university fyi. So, apparently it's "childish" or "immature" to use images. You always give out indirect or direct shots.

Anywho, listen, Jose isn't worth that much, he's there to make up the #s. Bargs - I arguably dislike him less now than DD cuz of that contract and because he has some sort of skill unlike DD. He is much much much easier to deal than DD atm. A trade like the one above would be a godsend to this team.
my indirect shots to you are playful in nature... I assume you're inviting enough for them. If not, I'll hold off. No big deal.

I agree that it might be a great deal, just that I would have at least some hesitation on it, but seeing as we couldn't offer a first rounder anyways, maybe that's not even a worry.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:08 PM   #111 (permalink)
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amir is better offensively than JV, he can hit a mid range jumper with reasonable accuracy these days and he's a better P&R player (for some reason, our PGs don't seem to cooperate well with JV on the P&R - could be a trust issue, but he's never getting the ball when he rolls). JV sets some nice screens, but he doesn't trust his shot and around the basket you won't get too many chances in crunch time when teams are more focused and the offense goes in half-court mode.
Amir's jumper is still laughable. His stroke is incredibly slow and although it does go in now more than it did before I wouldn't call it "reliable". He's better than JV because he has experience... plain & simple.

Once JV gets that experience he'll be MILES ahead of Amir (and any other big one the roster). He already plays bigger IMO.


As for the Gay for Bargs+Jose trade... I'd do it TBH. I'd be comfortable getting an all-star calibre SF and letting Lucas take over the back up PG duties while giving Amir and Ed more minutes at the 4. I think we'd be a better team in the long run.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:13 PM   #112 (permalink)
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my indirect shots to you are playful in nature... I assume you're inviting enough for them. If not, I'll hold off. No big deal.

I agree that it might be a great deal, just that I would have at least some hesitation on it, but seeing as we couldn't offer a first rounder anyways, maybe that's not even a worry.
hard to tell if playful in nature or not given as how we're all typing behind a screen and not face to face aka no notion of tone, etc.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:13 PM   #113 (permalink)
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How so, you don't even know what we'd get. Besides, Colangelo isn't giving them up for nothing, which means he'll ask for far too much therefor they aren't going anywhere.
just meant i'd be disappointed to see 2 guys i have faith in leaving. Was also referring to the possible gay trade. Not saying i wouldn't consider it. Esp if we also got a role player in addition to gay.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:28 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Amir and JV are basically the same player. Long, lanky, bouncy, energy guys with great hands. like they're really the same player - Amir might add a little more value at this point but you can chalk that up to age, experience and an established chemistry. JV is your guy of the future, Amir isn't, and its not like having JV in there instead of Amir is going to be the difference between making the playoffs and not. We've made an investment in JV, and cultivating that investment is more important than anything, especially when the difference between him and a guy like Amir is negligible.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:33 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Amir and JV are basically the same player. Long, lanky, bouncy, energy guys with great hands. like they're really the same player - Amir might add a little more value at this point but you can chalk that up to age, experience and an established chemistry. JV is your guy of the future, Amir isn't, and its not like having JV in there instead of Amir is going to be the difference between making the playoffs and not. We've made an investment in JV, and cultivating that investment is more important than anything, especially when the difference between him and a guy like Amir is negligible.
Yep.

I do think that there's one added difference though.... JV is (or can be) a legit NBA C. He has that size. Amir will always be a PF playing out of position if he's forced into that role.

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Old 11-02-2012, 12:37 PM   #116 (permalink)
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hard to tell if playful in nature or not given as how we're all typing behind a screen and not face to face aka no notion of tone, etc.
Are you asking me out? Sorry, I'm taken.



nah I get it, but I respond often to your posts, and feel free to engage if you wish. Despite the difference of opinions, it's what makes discussing basketball enjoyable. I just wish I was wrong more often!

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Old 11-02-2012, 12:39 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Yep.

I do think that there's one added difference though.... JV is (or can be) a legit NBA C. Amir will always be a PF playing out of position if he's forced into that role.
That's what's so incredibly exciting about this team! JV is a legitimate center.... gotta love his size and length.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:57 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Are you asking me out? Sorry, I'm taken.



nah I get it, but I respond often to your posts, and feel free to engage if you wish. Despite the difference of opinions, it's what makes discussing basketball enjoyable. I just wish I was wrong more often!

lol. fair enough. what an awesome forum this is.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:06 PM   #119 (permalink)
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what happened to the picks? I think you're selling Bargnani for less than he's worth around the league. Gay plays off of Randolph and Gasol.... Bargnani has played off of Amir, Gray, and some shitty SF. Whatever, we disagree.... I like Rudy, but Memphis is a good team without him. Last year we were turrible without Bargnani. Am I wrong on this point?
This is true,

In my opinion though,there's no room for Bargnani in Memphis with Gasol and Randolph up front. I believe a 3rd team would need to be involved. Its unthinkable but Kevin Love already warned Minnesota about not improving that he'd want out. Not saying Toronto is better than the T-Wolves but they do play in an easier conference. They should go hard for him, give Minny Ross,Bargnani,Davis,Kleiza,picks,whoever...just get Love here. Calderon would fit perfect on the Bulls or Thunder,I'm not sure where Bargnani would fit yet.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:10 PM   #120 (permalink)
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This is true,

In my opinion though,there's no room for Bargnani in Memphis with Gasol and Randolph up front. I believe a 3rd team would need to be involved. Its unthinkable but Kevin Love already warned Minnesota about not improving that he'd want out. Not saying Toronto is better than the T-Wolves but they do play in an easier conference. They should go hard for him, give Minny Ross,Bargnani,Davis,Kleiza,picks,whoever...just get Love here. Calderon would fit perfect on the Bulls or Thunder,I'm not sure where Bargnani would fit yet.
Oh lawd.... Love + JV + Lowry would make this the toughest Raps team since the Oak/Willis/Childs/Christie days.

I wouldn't be able to handle that much happiness.
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