JV > Bargs (yep, already) - Page 3
Old 11-01-2012, 01:53 PM   #41 (permalink)
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fwiw, this is from his nbadraft.net profile in 2005:
Yeah fine, but that wasn't the player BC was selling.
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:55 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Yep. Exactly.

Hibbert is one of the biggest guys in the league and a borderline all-star C (can't remember if he made the team last season or not). He's going to give A LOT of teams problems. Expecting Val to shut him down is idiotic. What impressed me about JV is that he didn't BACK DOWN from the challenge and still continued to stick his nose in there against a solid IND team that was one of the best in the East last season.

Compare that to Bargs' first few YEARS in the league when he just wilted in the paint as soon as things started to get tough.

Jonas has BALLS. Big ones. The same way that Lowry does.... and when his skill (and his body) catches up with his desire you're going to see one hell of an NBA big man.
you're just pointing out what you like about JV - those are all great signs for his future. I'm referring to the NOW, these two months that will be critical for our playoff chances because of the crazy schedule. Yes, he didn't back down, but that didn't stop hibbery from scoring basically every time he got the ball in the 1st half, until we put gray on him. If not for west abusing us, they would have probably gone back to hibbert with the same result too.

I am very happy with JV who is living up to his promise so far, but, if this first game was any indication, he's not the optimal solution for our starting lineup, against many matchups, especially against big guys. Or start him if you want, let him try a few things and then give him the hook if we continue to get abused.Last night he only had 4 defensive rebounds and no blocks, which for a guy who has to earn his living on D, it's not that great.
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:56 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Yeah fine, but that wasn't the player BC was selling.
that's why you don't take a gm's word for it, and why i suggested torap should have consulted a scouting report before developing his list.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:00 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Are we deducing this based off of what both did last night? Or purely what JV did and then comparing it to the entire career of AB. If it's the latter, then that makes sense.

However if we are making this assumption purely based on last night's game then it's a little too soon.

Both shot the ball pretty badly, and Bargnani was pretty much gassed in the 2nd half, a lot of that could do with the Flu.

JV def brings thing's to the table that AB doesn't. He will grab key boards, and stabilize the inside. If Bargnani can get his shot going, those 2 will be a very dynamic combination.
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:10 PM   #45 (permalink)
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It may not be proven yet but there is a lot of truth to what the thread starter is stating. For what the Raptors are trying to do and direction they're headed in,Jonas Valancuinas fits the scheme much better than Andrea Bargnani. If a choice had to be made between one or the other,even after a single game,Valancuinas would be kept over Bargnani.

If Andrea isn't scoring 20+ points on a gamely basis,he's useless. He had 8 free throw attempts and 3 blocks yesterday which is excellent but his player traits suggest he can't perform consistently around that range for those categories. Again,he's a 7 foot Center/Power Forward and he attempted more 3's(4) then grabbed rebounds(3) in the opener. I know he's a good shooter,especially on a team that doesn't shoot well but he needs to go for more easy baskets around the hoop or in the paint and not camp out by the three point line when he doesn't have the ball. The Raptors need their big men to block,rebound,roll to the hoop after setting hard screens,not take 25 ft jumpers. Valancuinas does all those things well,which makes him a better player for this team/roster than Bargnani.
So let me see if I have this straight, and this is all from your post...

AB is an Excellent shooter on a team that has no shooters, so he has to go.

Only got 3 rebounds, despite boxing ou like a mad man and allowing Lowry to scoop up a bunch...so hey, he has to go.

Got to the line 8 times off aggressive drives to the hoop, but doesn't go to the hoop...has to go.

Set some serious picks at the top of the key to free up the lane for the pg's...definitely has to go.

Only blocked three shots...gotta get him outta here.

Isn't Jonas, so, he has to go.

Do you not see, the utter nonsense in what you are posting here??

You gys need to calm the fuck down. Bargnani ain't JV, JV is in fact JV. JV will be his awesome self, and Bargnani will be his awesome self, and thats all there really is to it. making a thread to somehow denigrate one player, just because another played well is fucking ridiculous. You follow a team, the team has players, the players play...live with it.
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:11 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bargn88 View Post
Are we deducing this based off of what both did last night? Or purely what JV did and then comparing it to the entire career of AB. If it's the latter, then that makes sense.

However if we are making this assumption purely based on last night's game then it's a little too soon.

Both shot the ball pretty badly, and Bargnani was pretty much gassed in the 2nd half, a lot of that could do with the Flu.

JV def brings thing's to the table that AB doesn't. He will grab key boards, and stabilize the inside. If Bargnani can get his shot going, those 2 will be a very dynamic combination.
Thank you.
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:29 PM   #47 (permalink)
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So let me see if I have this straight, and this is all from your post...

AB is an Excellent shooter on a team that has no shooters, so he has to go.

Only got 3 rebounds, despite boxing ou like a mad man and allowing Lowry to scoop up a bunch...so hey, he has to go.

Got to the line 8 times off aggressive drives to the hoop, but doesn't go to the hoop...has to go.

Set some serious picks at the top of the key to free up the lane for the pg's...definitely has to go.

Only blocked three shots...gotta get him outta here.

Isn't Jonas, so, he has to go.

Do you not see, the utter nonsense in what you are posting here??

You gys need to calm the fuck down. Bargnani ain't JV, JV is in fact JV. JV will be his awesome self, and Bargnani will be his awesome self, and thats all there really is to it. making a thread to somehow denigrate one player, just because another played well is fucking ridiculous. You follow a team, the team has players, the players play...live with it.
Bargnani's one strength is shooting,all that is negated if he's taking poor shots. If he's hitting the 3's,fire away but if they aren't sinking,try something else. That's all I'm suggesting. As far as his defense,we all know he's mediocre there so its accepted if he doesn't do that night in and out. If he's lacking in that and not scoring,like I said before he's "useless" for this team. Last night was just one game and he was under the weather so he gets a pass,but for a guy who's supposed to be the best on the team,if he continues to under perform,yes you do start to inquire about trades.

This team's new identity is supposed to be a "defensive nitty gritty" team. JV fits that mold more than Bargnani as a front court player and as he showed last night he can still provide offense at the same time

People are acting like its a sin to consider moving forward without Bargnani. He's a good player,that's not the argument but he can be traded to get pieces to make the team player,why not?
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:38 PM   #48 (permalink)
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wtf??

You know the dont occupy the same spot right?
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:42 PM   #49 (permalink)
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So let me see if I have this straight, and this is all from your post...

AB is an Excellent shooter on a team that has no shooters, so he has to go.

Only got 3 rebounds, despite boxing ou like a mad man and allowing Lowry to scoop up a bunch...so hey, he has to go.

Got to the line 8 times off aggressive drives to the hoop, but doesn't go to the hoop...has to go.

Set some serious picks at the top of the key to free up the lane for the pg's...definitely has to go.

Only blocked three shots...gotta get him outta here.

Isn't Jonas, so, he has to go.

Do you not see, the utter nonsense in what you are posting here??

You gys need to calm the fuck down. Bargnani ain't JV, JV is in fact JV. JV will be his awesome self, and Bargnani will be his awesome self, and thats all there really is to it. making a thread to somehow denigrate one player, just because another played well is fucking ridiculous. You follow a team, the team has players, the players play...live with it.
Good poster,Raptors fan like most of us but quit exaggerating...I credited him for getting to the line,credited him the 3 blocks...just outlined in my opinion what he can do to enhance his offensive game beyond 20 ft + jumpers. At the end of the day,what any of us say or think doesn't matter,only how Bargnani feels matters. That's what upsets some fans tho,it appears as if he doesn't care a lot of the times.
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:44 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Good poster,Raptors fan like most of us but quit exaggerating...I credited him for getting to the line,credited him the 3 blocks...just outlined in my opinion what he can do to enhance his offensive game beyond 20 ft + jumpers. At the end of the day,what any of us say or think doesn't matter,only how Bargnani feels matters. That's what upsets some fans tho,it appears as if he doesn't care a lot of the times.
You're living in the past man, you're hung up on some clown from the 60's man.
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:56 PM   #51 (permalink)
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You're living in the past man, you're hung up on some clown from the 60's man.
Hunh?? Just say what you're trying to say....

Its like the idea is Bargnani is gonna lead the Raptors to the promise land and if you disagree you're an idiot. Am I not allowed to expect more from the my favorite team's richest and best player or should I continue to make excuses for him,like the most of you?

I like him,but if he doesn't perform then he can bring back something in return as our most valuable asset. I don't get all the attachment.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:00 PM   #52 (permalink)
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All in all,last night was one game...they'll bounce back. The season's not in jeopardy. Go Raps Go! Everything will work,we got a solid PG crew to run the offense and a nice young energetic stud on defense to ignite the charge.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:23 PM   #53 (permalink)
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What frustrates me with Bargs last night is that you see what he's capable of, dominating West in the 1st quarter and blocking him 2 times. Then in the 4th he turns to a complete stiff and gets owned. What the hell changed? He really has different gears he shifts into at the worst times.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:25 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Hunh?? Just say what you're trying to say....

Its like the idea is Bargnani is gonna lead the Raptors to the promise land and if you disagree you're an idiot. Am I not allowed to expect more from the my favorite team's richest and best player or should I continue to make excuses for him,like the most of you?

I like him,but if he doesn't perform then he can bring back something in return as our most valuable asset. I don't get all the attachment.
Be careful when you drop any negative comments on the idol of the Bargnani Fanboys. Bargnani played hard, but in crunch time, star players make their teams win. Alot of nights, the best players are on the other team. I miss Bosh.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:25 PM   #55 (permalink)
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team d broke down dude.

West got away with a few.

Listen, thos here saying the game was lost because of west are on crack. Toronto shooting something like 10% in the fourth lost the game for them.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:26 PM   #56 (permalink)
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oh yes, us fanboy..dont make us angry!
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:41 PM   #57 (permalink)
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With a few minutes on clock, and his team down by 8 points, West was the best player on the floor last night, and he showed it. There is a reason why West is a multiple all-star player, and Bargnani has none. I know people don't like to hear it, but star players will their team to win.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:47 PM   #58 (permalink)
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David West is no longer a star player. Chris Paul helped make him an allstar the one year by getting him so many good looks and because they had a good record. Hes a very good offensive player whos tough and has made the most out of his abilities. But hes middle of the pack in terms of starting PFs in the NBA. Theres probably 10-15 guys better than he is overall. His lack of defence and rebounding hurts him and its not from a lack of trying, unlike Bargs.

If Bargs has this much trouble with him, I'm not looking forward to when he plays the star PFs in the league.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:51 PM   #59 (permalink)
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With a few minutes on clock, and his team down by 8 points, West was the best player on the floor last night, and he showed it. There is a reason why West is a multiple all-star player, and Bargnani has none. I know people don't like to hear it, but star players will their team to win.
West also had the luxury of playing beside Chris Paul....

With regards to last night, West made tough shots. He's a good player now without question.

Bargnani has made tough shots late in games to seal victories too. Just didn't happen last night, and that's understandable considering he had no legs and was dealing with the Flu.

It was 1 game.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:58 PM   #60 (permalink)
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David West is no longer a star player. Chris Paul helped make him an allstar the one year by getting him so many good looks and because they had a good record. Hes a very good offensive player whos tough and has made the most out of his abilities. But hes middle of the pack in terms of starting PFs in the NBA. Theres probably 10-15 guys better than he is overall. His lack of defence and rebounding hurts him and its not from a lack of trying, unlike Bargs.

If Bargs has this much trouble with him, I'm not looking forward to when he plays the star PFs in the league.
David West made two all-star teams in a stacked Western Conference. Yes, he is no longer that player that can give you 20 and 8 on a nightly basis because of injuries, but in crunch time, I'll take him over Bargs anytime.
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