JV > Bargs (yep, already) - Page 2
Old 11-01-2012, 01:38 AM   #21 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,432
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thriller92 View Post
The guy played 24 minutes and had a double double in his first game. Yes Hibbert pounded him inside a few times and he reached a few times when he shouldnt, but he was a presence in the paint on both sides of the ball and hes actually capable of finishing plays around the rim unlike Gray. Not only that, he can actually move to get a rebound unlike Gray.

We have 0 chance to make the playoffs with Amir or Gray starting. Thats fucking stupid. We're much better off playing Val against 1st unit guys and he'll continue to get better as the season goes on. He was not bad tonight.
Yep. Exactly.

Hibbert is one of the biggest guys in the league and a borderline all-star C (can't remember if he made the team last season or not). He's going to give A LOT of teams problems. Expecting Val to shut him down is idiotic. What impressed me about JV is that he didn't BACK DOWN from the challenge and still continued to stick his nose in there against a solid IND team that was one of the best in the East last season.

Compare that to Bargs' first few YEARS in the league when he just wilted in the paint as soon as things started to get tough.

Jonas has BALLS. Big ones. The same way that Lowry does.... and when his skill (and his body) catches up with his desire you're going to see one hell of an NBA big man.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:38 AM   #22 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,699
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Everything that I've ever wanted from Bargs I saw from JV tonight.... in his FIRST NBA reg. season game.

Intensity? Check.

Toughness? Check.

Rebounding? Check.

Contesting shots on D? Check.

Running the floor hard and rotating quickly? Check.
if that's all the stuff you ever wanted out of Bargs you probably should have looked at a scouting report before settling on that list.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:44 AM   #23 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,735
Representing:
Default

Valanciunas looks fucking awesome

International play had me skeptical this summer, but his style of play was meant for the NBA. He has been great. For every hook Hibbert knocked down, V battled him into a miss.

If somebody thinks Grey should be on the court instead of V, that's a very interesting opinion, and although I respect somebody's right to have that opinion, it's a very silly opinion to have.
bjjs is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:45 AM   #24 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,735
Representing:
Default

I thought Bargnani looked pretty good tonight
bjjs is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:54 AM   #25 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,432
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
if that's all the stuff you ever wanted out of Bargs you probably should have looked at a scouting report before settling on that list.
If playing hard, being tough and rebounding the ball are too much to ask from a starting NBA 7fter then I don't really know what to say.....
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:57 AM   #26 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
If playing hard, being tough and rebounding the ball are too much to ask from a starting NBA 7fter then I don't really know what to say.....
he scores dude, that's what being a big in the nba is all about (hint, just a hint of sarcasm)
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:01 AM   #27 (permalink)
jonas smellandchewthis

Senior Member
 
thought's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,724
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
I thought Bargnani looked pretty good tonight
Agreed. In all honesty I think he'd do we'll to shed some mass, it has affected his mobility making moves around the rim. There's no doubt he's gained a lot of muscle since his first year, but its not even like he's using it to bang down low more than he ever was.
thought is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:01 AM   #28 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,699
Representing:
Default

lack of strength, poor rebounding, confidence issues and questionable intensity were known attributes before he was even drafted. i don't see how you can say you expected stuff he never was known to be good at.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:03 AM   #29 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
lack of strength, poor rebounding, confidence issues and questionable intensity were known attributes before he was even drafted. i don't see how you can say you expected stuff he never was known to be good at.
nobody expected him to be good at it, they just expected him to improve a bit.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:03 AM   #30 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,735
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thought View Post
Agreed. In all honesty I think he'd do we'll to shed some mass, it has affected his mobility making moves around the rim. There's no doubt he's gained a lot of muscle since his first year, but its not even like he's using it to bang down low more than he ever was.
I agree - he's got some decent size without the added bulk to hold his ground against other PFs.

He was slow defensively on few key possessions today, and he took a couple bad shots - but he played with passion and heart.
bjjs is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:05 AM   #31 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,432
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
lack of strength, poor rebounding, confidence issues and questionable intensity were known attributes before he was even drafted. i don't see how you can say you expected stuff he never was known to be good at.
1. I recall BC raving about some test the Bargs took that ranked his confidence "off the charts". Unfortunately, I think that BC confused "confidence" with "apathy".

2. Why in God's name would you ever draft a player that displayed so many poor qualities? Just because he was 7ft and could shoot a 3?
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:06 AM   #32 (permalink)
We going to the 'ship!

Senior Member

 
Ball Don't Lie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 11,203
Representing:
Default

Quote:
um, handily? ok ...
I saw the stats after the series was over, it was pretty crazy the difference when Hibbert was on and off the court. When he left the game, Miami just pounded it inside. When he was in the game, Indy was building leads. If someone could find it, it would be appreciated.

Yes, we have a small margin for error, but we're not going to come anywhere close to the playoffs with Amir or Gray starting and playing a majority of the minutes at center. Jonas' size is such and quickness on help defence, as well as rebounding on both sides of the ball is huge. Neither Amir nor Gray can provide both. I think Val can consistently if he gets the time, and that provides a big impact in the game even if hes not scoring.

Your logic is crazy.
Ball Don't Lie is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:13 AM   #33 (permalink)
Keep it simple

Senior Member
 
Dario's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 8,931
Representing:
Send a message via Skype™ to Dario
Default

JV all day budday
Dario is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:36 AM   #34 (permalink)
is what it is!!

cogito ergo sum
 
killabee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 974
Representing:
Default

i totally agree
killabee is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 09:33 AM   #35 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,749
Representing:
Default

Confidence was supposed to be Bargnani's greatest strength when drafted. Remember that calliper test and the ice running through his veins?

I liked how Bargnani payed for the most part tonight. He was running the floor, and he was playing basketball. But there are always stretches where he infuriates me and tonight didn't disappoint. In the third, or start of the fourth, he had the ball at the top of the key. He attracted the defense. Valanciunas was unbelievably left wide open to the left of the basket. An easy pass meant an easy dunk. He chucked up a lazy miss. Then he goes down to the other end a little slow and got stuck in no-man's land and let West get started on his run with a drive to the basket that went unchecked.

My dream is to see Bargnani play 25-30 minutes on nights like these, and not necessarily see the court down the stretch. Ed Davis' energy in limited minutes made a big impact. We were getting stops and stretching the lead. Maybe West would have lit him up as well, but I would have liked to have seen that as the approach. There was too much emphasis on Andrea as a primary scorer, and he got thrown off his game far too easily to be able to fill that role. This team needs to find another guy to score, play Andrea fewer minutes if they need to get stops, and go from there.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 09:34 AM   #36 (permalink)
not here

Tolerate my english
 
Rimpianto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rome\Edinburgh
Posts: 321
Representing:
Default

So, you want a player like Val, doing things that Val does and then you want another identical one?
Is it that bad to have an energy player around the rim and a finesse one on the perimeter?

West got 2 rebounds yesterday, I bet nobody is complaining about it on Pacers forums. And Bargs boxing him out has nothing to do with it, sure. It's only important to find the stat that can give you rights to shit on Bargs.

Before people complained about Andrea not driving, yesterday he did. No block? 3.
If he'll start rebounding they'll start talking about attitude, after that I don't know, hairstyle?

But the best part is that none of this is important, the same people will always complain about him and surely will always find a way to diss him.
Real true fans who care for the whole team...
Rimpianto is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 11:23 AM   #37 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,494
Representing:
Default

JV is going to be better than AB... but we need that. AB was coming off the flu and his conditioning showed it. First half he looked much better, and three blocks isn't bad either. He got tired. It's one game. If JV can be our best player, we're in for a good season. We've lacked that since Vince. The defense by JV was awesome to watch, especially the adjustments he made coming out for the second half.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 11:33 AM   #38 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,699
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Confidence was supposed to be Bargnani's greatest strength when drafted. Remember that calliper test and the ice running through his veins?
fwiw, this is from his nbadraft.net profile in 2005:

Quote:
Indecisive passer at times, but employs proper tecnique ... Emotional player, he needs more experience in order to gain more confidence.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:22 PM   #39 (permalink)
enjoying JV turning into star

Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 305
Representing:
Default

JV got lots of rookie treatment no calls by refs as well. With time he will earn respect and at least 5-6 trips to FT line every game. Did he made mistakes? - absolutely. But even if Hibbert scorred on him a lot in first half he made adjustments and forced him into lost of bad shots during second half. Actually for rookie playing all star center on his first game in NBA and basicly drawing even it is quite a success I would say. Hibbert is a tough cat to play and Jonas did more then ok.
Calgary Jazz is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 01:50 PM   #40 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,688
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thriller92 View Post
I saw the stats after the series was over, it was pretty crazy the difference when Hibbert was on and off the court. When he left the game, Miami just pounded it inside. When he was in the game, Indy was building leads. If someone could find it, it would be appreciated.

Yes, we have a small margin for error, but we're not going to come anywhere close to the playoffs with Amir or Gray starting and playing a majority of the minutes at center. Jonas' size is such and quickness on help defence, as well as rebounding on both sides of the ball is huge. Neither Amir nor Gray can provide both. I think Val can consistently if he gets the time, and that provides a big impact in the game even if hes not scoring.

Your logic is crazy.
hibbert was huge in the first 3 games, but they bottled him up after - he wasn't that effective in the last 3.

as far as my logic, unless you consider JV better than Amir or Gray (against big centers) RIGHT NOW, not sure what's wrong with playing him fewer minutes until his positives outweight the negatives. It's only one game and we'll have to see how this plays out, but if the strategy is to let JV start,log off serious minutes and let him play through his mistakes, that's not the optimal strategy if playoff is the most important outcome. Amir is much more polished offensively, just as good of a rebounder/shot blocker and he's very mobile and less prone to mistakes.

With fields and JV, we're playing 3 on 5 offensively, and the starting lineup will suffer, especially in crunch time when defenses tighten.
moremilk is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24