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-   -   just something to think about with the oneal trade (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/just-something-think-about-oneal-trade-3027.html)

westcoastRapsfan 08-21-2008 08:54 PM

just something to think about with the oneal trade
 
this is my first post but i just wanted people to think about this. If you look at how we got jermain oneal it was really not for all that much considering we go tj for charlieV and got rasho for erik williams and matt bonner throw in the 17 and this helps bc look like even more of a genius.

sorry to bring this up but i just was reading old post of people trashing the trade saying we gave up to much. just something to think about

Kirby 08-21-2008 08:58 PM

Welcome to RF WestcoastRapsfan.
Yes there're plenty of haters here..

jeffb 08-21-2008 09:17 PM

The only player we really gave up with any upside in the trade was T.J.And he is a fall away from retiring.And a #17 pick is a crap shoot.So IMO if JO stays healthy it's a great trade and as long as he plays 65-70 games it's still a great trade.

Review:

T.J (was an asset but injury prone)
Rasho (getting old,inconsistent)
Baston (never played)
Draft pick (crap shoot)

JO (looking for fresh start,getting back to All-star form?)

LX 08-21-2008 09:44 PM

Everybody loves draft picks around draft time, but when the dust settles a 17 pick is not so much to cry about.

Stonezz 08-21-2008 10:03 PM

Yeah i dont think we gave up that much for O'Neal

Gurk 08-21-2008 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by •LX• (Post 51559)
Everybody loves draft picks around draft time, but when the dust settles a 17 pick is not so much to cry about.

True, once the draft is done the 17th pick isn't going to help a team out in one year with a big impact

insight_tor 08-21-2008 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcoastRapsfan (Post 51550)
this is my first post but i just wanted people to think about this. If you look at how we got jermain oneal it was really not for all that much considering we go tj for charlieV and got rasho for erik williams and matt bonner throw in the 17 and this helps bc look like even more of a genius.

sorry to bring this up but i just was reading old post of people trashing the trade saying we gave up to much. just something to think about

For some people "trashing" is in their nature :) ... If JO stays healthy, BC really did a really great trade. If not, cap space for future:)

Kirby 08-22-2008 12:54 AM

On the other end..They get a replacement for Jermaine with Hibbert,Baston and Rasho. They also add a good PG.
For 13ppg and 6 rebounds, and 20M, what else do you want? That's in Indiana's perspective since Jermaine hasn't been working with them.

Ugo Ferst 08-22-2008 01:23 AM

I think it's a pretty good trade for the raptors. We arent risking much in that we think Jose is a better fit for us anyways so we are getting a possible allstar calibre player or at least a good roll player and giving up very little game to game.

The only negative thing i can think about the trade is, we pretty much know JO's full upside if he is 100%, and its def a great thing, but who knows what TJ could become? I for one think he is a very special talent and if he got the right mindset on the right kind of team, could be a allstar calibre PG.

henrymakepeace 08-22-2008 01:40 AM

TJ is not a true PG. He could not make his teammates better. That's why Caleron is better than him. Solomon can be as good as TJ if not better. Be prepared to be surprised. Another European PG is also coming in. I don't think Raps will miss Ford. JO will be helpful as long as they are successful as a team and have a target (i.e. Eastern champions). Once things fall apart, he can be problemmatic.

Ugo Ferst 08-22-2008 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henrymakepeace (Post 51597)
TJ is not a true PG. He could not make his teammates better. That's why Caleron is better than him. Solomon can be as good as TJ if not better. Be prepared to be surprised. Another European PG is also coming in. I don't think Raps will miss Ford. JO will be helpful as long as they are successful as a team and have a target (i.e. Eastern champions). Once things fall apart, he can be problemmatic.

Such blatent BS, im sorry to say that, but that's what it is. TJ was the engine of our team 2 years ago when we had our best year, and Jose was a very small part. TJ was moving the ball around nicely and scoring nicely and making a difference, aswell as being clutch late game. It's funny how a career threaten injury, a horrible couple of months and some stellar Jose play for a few months can skew peoples memories of TJ....

Shifty.py 08-22-2008 02:05 AM

TJ was great. Remember who fed Kapono and Moon for great looks (and dunks)? With TJ in the game both played much better on offence. If not for his injury issues, I would trade Calderon way before him.

Snooch 08-22-2008 07:20 AM

Bah, Shifty and Ugo, TJ Was a decent point guard but he is a guard in that Allen Iverson mold. He needed to be the one who took the last shot, if he wasnt he would not be happy.

2 years ago TJ was a different player than he was last year. Last year he would alow the offense to stagnat while he dribbled around the top of the key, he would feed guys continuosly who had the hot hand, on the pick and roll with Bosh he would always use it himself and rarely feed Bosh the ball.

On defense he really isnt any better than Jose as both have a lot of room for improvement.

Overall as far as the team

Better shooter-Jose
Better at involving teamates-Jose
Better at finishing at the basket-Jose
Potential for defense-give it to Jose because e is bigger and less likely to be abused on post-ups.
Smarter player-arguably Jose

Better at creating own shot-TJ, to a fault

CourtVision 08-22-2008 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 51557)
JO (looking for fresh start,getting back to All-star form?)

He is injury prone as well as inconsistent.

you can't shit on everyone else and claim that Jermaine is made of gold.

CourtVision 08-22-2008 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst (Post 51600)
Such blatent BS, im sorry to say that, but that's what it is. TJ was the engine of our team 2 years ago when we had our best year, and Jose was a very small part. TJ was moving the ball around nicely and scoring nicely and making a difference, aswell as being clutch late game. It's funny how a career threaten injury, a horrible couple of months and some stellar Jose play for a few months can skew peoples memories of TJ....

I completely agree with you.

Of course he was disgruntled not to have his spot back.

Point guards need time to work with there team, you can't expect a guy to come off an injury like that after being out for so long to play at the level hes capable of playing.

When he came back, the team was use to playing with Jose. Things weren't working for him so he tried to score more to get back into the starting lineup. Just guessing here.

I think everyone wrote TJ off way to fast, but its not like we can't afford to Calderon is a promising young PG. Although I would have liked to give TJ one more year a summer, and training camp to get back to form but since they both wanted to start Bryan Colangelo / Mitchell had to make a choice.

Superjudge 08-22-2008 08:49 AM

I don't wanna get too far into this, but you'll always see a divide on the Calderon-Ford issue. With younger people more interested in Ford and his individual play, and the older people who know better who enjoy the wisdom and security a gurad like Calderon provides.

You can talk all day about Ford and his ability to find his shot, but I'm sorry, that is NOT a great asset unles it's used properly. Constantly looking to score is one of the worst tings a player can do, especially the PG.

As for the trade. Well Hibbert is what ya give up. On paper at least, and ya get Jawai.

I'll take that.

ONeal is NOT injury prone, he's had two, an ankle (all NBA guys have an ankle at some point) and a Knee, a meniscus, he tried to play on. Are all you guys slagging Oneal health gonna start tearing Brandon Roy to shit now. EXACT same injury and Procedure.

ps. Oneal is a kid, he aint even 30 yet

LX 08-22-2008 08:56 AM

Yeah all TJ did was look for his own shot SJ. That's how he racked up all those assists. I think your post is a great example of why the issue flares up. I love both guys, but I see so many posts that just shit on TJ and then back it up with nothing but saying that anyone who thinks differently just doesn't know fuck all. Why can't there just be a difference of opinion, different likes and dislikes, or the possibility of liking them both?

Shifty.py 08-22-2008 08:56 AM

Quote:

Better at involving teamates-Jose
Jose is good in making set plays. But in agressive dribble - draw defense - feed teammates, TJ was better.
And he will have a great season in Indiana

LX 08-22-2008 08:58 AM

And maybe we should say that Jose is injury prone.:(

Snooch 08-22-2008 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty.py (Post 51630)
Jose is good in making set plays. But in agressive dribble - draw defense - shoot, TJ was better.
And he will have a great season in Indiana


Fixed.


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