Jose & Team Spain - "PictureGate" - Page 9
Old 08-14-2008, 09:37 AM   #161 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rapsfan087 View Post
Sorry if Im being dumb or whatever, this is my last post in this thread, I promese you.

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/depor...lpepudep_1/Tes



The rest of the article talks about what the international press has said on this matter.
Bravo, Chinese embassy!

More to the point - I watched Spain play Germany last night and there was many a cheer from the stands (camera actually showing Chinese fans cheering) after a good play by the Spaniards, namely after Gasol's drive'n'dunk in the second half.

Is it just me or have the North Americans decided to be offended on Chinese' behalf?

P.S. Having read the last posts - no, it isn't just me, it's me and our Spanish friends.

Last edited by MikeToronto; 08-14-2008 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 08-14-2008, 09:45 AM   #162 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuggleBled View Post
funny

jason kidd speaks the truth and he's the bad guy

you guys seriously crack me up
Funkie, don't you fucking assume the position of the old and wise man.

Kidd spoke the truth? What truth? You know full well how meaningless the word "truth" really is and how it depends on one's standpoint on issues like this one - why use it at all?

Jason Kidd has lost all his credibility in moral issues the moment he beat up his wife. He should be well advised to shut the fuck up and learn to shoot the ball better instead of commenting on something that doesn't concern him at all. Now, that's a truth for ya.
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Old 08-14-2008, 09:55 AM   #163 (permalink)
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It has actually been said around that all this is a part of a boycott to hurt Madrids bid amd help chicagos bid for the 2016 olympics. I hope its not true, and I though that idea was pretty stupid in the beggining but the fuzz this is creating its starting to irk me.
Luckily I dont care that much about Madrids olympics.
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:02 AM   #164 (permalink)
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Just to bury this absurdity once and for all:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer...ory?id=3532682

Quote:
The basketball federation had just signed a four-year contract extension with Chinese clothing brand Li Ning shortly after arriving in the Chinese capital for the Games.

"We have great respect for the Far East and its people, some of my best friends in Toronto are originally Chinese, including one of our sponsors, the brand Li Ning," Calderon wrote. "Whoever wants to interpret it differently is completely confusing it."

Frank Zhang, Li Ning's director of government and public affairs, played down the incident.

"We don't think this is an insulting gesture to the Chinese," Zhang said. "In fact, the gesture shows that the Spanish team is so humorous, relaxing and cute. They sat around a dragon pattern, which we think showed respect to the Chinese.

"Li Ning Ltd. will not change any business plans with the Spanish team because of this," Zhang added. "People should focus on great Olympic Games instead of something else."
Fuck it, if Chinese, people of a completely different culture, including their own brand of humour, understood the "cute" meaning of the photo (as in "We are all Chinese", hence the gesture and the dragon on the court), then why can't local bleeding heart defenders of political correctness get this through their thick skulls?!

It wasn't racist. It wasn't stupid. It was a joke in an ad and Chinese people got it. It's about time North Americans did as well.
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:08 AM   #165 (permalink)
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Don't hold your breath.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:42 PM   #166 (permalink)
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Mike...

perhaps this is the most telling line of that paragraph

Quote:
"Li Ning Ltd. will not change any business plans with the Spanish team because of this," Zhang added. "People should focus on great Olympic Games instead of something else."
offended or not, they don't want this incident to be the focus. there's a lot more to it than you are willing to admit.

and for now i'll just ignore the point about "local bleeding heart defenders of political correctness " and "thick skulls".
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:45 PM   #167 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
and for now i'll just ignore the point about "local bleeding heart defenders of political correctness " and "thick skulls".
I thought this might be misconstrued - I meant local media moreso than local message board posters.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:50 PM   #168 (permalink)
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100 years the whole world was racist ... heck even 40 years ago it was the same. 150 years ago slavery was still going strong, does that make the americans a racist country?

Racism is a natural instinct (unfortunately) - it takes education and self control to overcome it. And Spain is no more a racist country than UK, USA and Canada - the only difference is that in North America there is a lot more public awareness about political correctness issues, while in Europe people tend to be more loose.

Also, each country has its own racial targets - for example in eastern europe you will have racism against gypsies and almost nobody would care about blacks and asians. In germany you have racism against muslim (turks in particular) and in france there is racism against africans (coming from their historical colonies). I don't know about Spain, but I would venture to guess that they don't have a lot of asians - what they do have are problems with eastern europeans and africans.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:56 PM   #169 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
I don't know about Spain, but I would venture to guess that they don't have a lot of asians - what they do have are problems with eastern europeans and africans.
And Germans at their resorts...
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:06 PM   #170 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeToronto View Post
Funkie, don't you fucking assume the position of the old and wise man.

Kidd spoke the truth? What truth? You know full well how meaningless the word "truth" really is and how it depends on one's standpoint on issues like this one - why use it at all?

Jason Kidd has lost all his credibility in moral issues the moment he beat up his wife. He should be well advised to shut the fuck up and learn to shoot the ball better instead of commenting on something that doesn't concern him at all. Now, that's a truth for ya.
i am taking the position of the wise man since all the adults have turned to children in defense of loverboy jose

i could pull a thousand threads on this board of american players getting bashed endlessly for something far less significant. it's a huge double standard.

what i'm having a hard time with, is that everyone agrees that it's stupid

yet

a whole lot of the jose fanboys feel the need to say but...but...but


no buts


it was stupid and completely ignorant.
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:29 PM   #171 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuggleBled View Post
what i'm having a hard time with, is that everyone agrees that it's stupid

yet

a whole lot of the jose fanboys feel the need to say but...but...but


no buts


it was stupid and completely ignorant.
Jose = my substitute hubby ... I still say he should have known better.
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:31 PM   #172 (permalink)
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Yea it was his fault to
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:02 PM   #173 (permalink)
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I don't care how many times people here repeat that it was stupid - no, it wasn't! I should've officially included the lot of you into the "thick skulls" category after all.

Look, I just ran an experiment. I am working in a very multi-cultural company, with a whole lot of Asians of both genders in every department, Vietnamese and Chinese, mostly, with Chinese represented by Hong Kong, mainland and Taiwan Chinese and their descendants born in NA. I've spent a lunch hour mingling with the guys and girls I know personally, asking all of them (about 10 people in total) the same questions:

1. Are you aware of the story?
2. Were you offended by the photo?

Only 2 were even aware of the "controversy". Of the rest, after I've explained what "happened", the prevailing question was (you'd never guess): "Were the players standing on the dragon?!" After seeing that the team was carefully positioned around the symbol with the dragon in the foreground, they've explained that standing on it would, in fact, constitute a cultural ignorance and an insult akin to spitting on a cross for Christians. The gesture itself produced mostly smiles and all 10 people acknowledged the "round eyes" expression as something widely used in their culture to describe Caucasians, with no malice attached to it. Equally, they've failed to see the malice behind the "slant eyes" gesture and got the "We are all Chinese" idea of the picture almost at once. Once again - they smiled; they found it funny, not stupid; they were not offended!

Every person who is not of an Asian descent, be it on this board or in the mainstream media, who continues to insist that the ad was stupid/inappropriate/racist, is trying to be "holier than thou", and clearly so. They are trying to impose their ulta-sensitive values on the rest of the world with no regard to the way the people involved actually feel about the situation. And no, Funkie, my protests have nothing to do with me being a fan of Calderon. I've spoken against various negative aspects of political correctness culture in the past and will do it again in the future.
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:19 PM   #174 (permalink)
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mike says it's not insulting, so it musn't be! glad you cleared that up!!!1!11!!!1!11!11!11!
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:49 PM   #175 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
mike says it's not insulting, so it musn't be! glad you cleared that up!!!1!11!!!1!11!11!11!
Numerous Chinese here and in China say it's not insulting.

How can I be clearer?
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Old 08-14-2008, 03:59 PM   #176 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeToronto View Post
Numerous Chinese here and in China say it's not insulting.

How can I be clearer?
God, dont you get it yet? In China you follow the company line, do you know what happens to people that make China look bad during the games? Do you think China wants to make a big conroversy out of their coming out as a legit superpower party that they consider these Olympic games to be? HELL NO, they want it to go away so the world can see how classy, gratious and friendly they are.

I bet most of the Chinese population is unaware of the photo in the 1st place, you are assuming they dont care because the embassy released a statement? How about when they released a statement on tinnamon square, did you just say well the embassy released that too, must be fact. Hey they also say Tibetians want to be assimulated by them, must be a fact aswell.

China isnt the Western world, you dont go against what the goverment says unless you want trouble.
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Old 08-14-2008, 04:05 PM   #177 (permalink)
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clear and missing the point is still missing the point...



my chinese co-worker found it insulting, does that mean anything??

this is all so absurd. all i've ever tried to say about this is that it's not surprising that many people saw this as offensive. they really should have though through the ramifications of such a photo. if they did think it through and they didn't see it, it was still a big mistake. despite the apologies and the comments from a few chinese officials who have a lot at stake in making sure the games go off without a hitch, there has been a lot of negative press about this. that could easily have been forseen.
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Old 08-14-2008, 04:17 PM   #178 (permalink)
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I don't think it's just North Americans being upset, but Europeans as well. It doesn't surprise me if people in China are not upset. They may not know of the story, and if they do they can hardly see it as a means of making them feel unwelcome, since it is their country and they are the ones doing the welcoming. In the same way it is hard to see how most of us could feel insulted or made to feel unwelcome by groups of people calling us round eyes. Much of the problem comes from where the privilege, and maybe more importantly, where the sense of privilege lies, and how that is used or abused. Now I don't think the Spanish team's actions were the product of any racism. I agree with Rap087 that it was naive, just based on the level of stupidity it would take for it to be otherwise, and having seen enough of what Jose does on and off the court. But it was still pathetically stupid.

The picture came up on PTI last night and my wife saw and heard of it for the first time then, and she was at least taken aback if not insulted. When I first met her I could not convince her of how much I loved her eyes. She repeated over and over, how they were small and beady, and that she shouldn't be trusted. Many other asian women have surgery on their eyes in order to have their appearance "corrected". And these sorts of feelings stem from the "slant eye" gesture and the names that go with it. I would just hope that the Spanish team could recognize that a bit, show some regret, and move on. To just simply brush the whole thing off makes it something insulting for myself, and I will have a difficult time wearing my number 8 jersey. If they can't hold themselves a little accountable, then Kidd is right - the league should, or it would prove to be a double standard.
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Old 08-14-2008, 04:22 PM   #179 (permalink)
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We are, as a society far too sensative.....
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Old 08-14-2008, 04:23 PM   #180 (permalink)
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well said LX.
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