Jose & Team Spain - "PictureGate" - Page 5
Old 08-13-2008, 11:31 AM   #81 (permalink)
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To be honest. Getting too worked up over this is a bit much. It was a bad idea, period, however the thoughts or idea's these guy had in the moment are probably not quite what the media, and some concerened PD cops are making it out to be. Key people have apologized, and the apologies seem legit. It's best to move on, use the message positively to raise a bit of awareness to the fact that these types of gaffs are not ok. Other than that, it isn't a big deal, certainly not one to get all deep and concerned about.

I understand this line of thinking, but to say "these type of gaffs are not ok" and then say apoligize and move on quickly seems to defeat the purpose and show that you can do this aslong as you come out with a canned apology to make everyone feel better.

I think donating the $ earned in this advertisement to a racism awareness program or something along that ilk aswell as players openly speaking out against subtle racism and cultural awareness would go alot further in putting this to bed then "im sorry, was silly mistake, i mean it, my bad".
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:33 AM   #82 (permalink)
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ya fine, so what, so they pay money.

they go on Oprah.

I just dont' see the point in hammering it to death on a messageboard.

My question is, what the fuck were they thinking...holy shit.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:34 AM   #83 (permalink)
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ya fine, so what, so they pay money.

they go on Oprah.

I just dont' see the point in hammering it to death on a messageboard.

My question is, what the fuck were they thinking...holy shit.
Well its summer and shit is slow :P
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:52 AM   #84 (permalink)
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In general terms, what you and Cling have said can make sense, but not in this matter.

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I'm going to guess you're the one without a clue what this means rapsfan. the point clingrap was making was in many ways a deeply philosophical one that has a tradition in intellectual thought that dates back, at the very least, to the post '68 radicalisms that stem from europe in the first place. this, in many ways, is a deconstruction of inherent white/european/western privilege. one facet of this, and i don't mean to spek for cling on this one, is that what we may find inoffensive may be found to be completely offensive by others.
Clingrap has identified that movement with the Spanish attitude, and that's wrong.

The intellectual though right now in Spain is what I have told you : Spain is a country who is trying to help the inmigration. Now tell me how that has to do whit that sort of thoughts about privilege. Think that it has nothing to do with that radicalism.

So it makes that comparison as bad as the pic: in general terms, looks a good idea, but when you go inside the matter, you know it's wrong.

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intent certainly matters rapsfan, but so do the unintended consequences of a poorly thought out publicity stunt. just because we don't find it insulting, doesn't mean that others won't. if we are aiming for an inclusive world, we need to take into consideration the wider impact of what we may construe to be a joke.
If you read all my posts in this thread, you can read that I have always said that it was a big failure. Agree with all of that.

The question is they didn't do that as a joke, they did it as a way to show some love to chinese/oriental/asian people (big stupid idea, I know).

They were wrong, but not racists. So all that thing about that movement has nothing to do with all of this, nobody was trying to be more than other race people.

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Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
also, as cling alluded to, boiling an ethnicity down to a particular facet of their physical appearance subsumes the thousands of years of (proud) cultural experience underneath a surface difference. whether or not this was intended, it is certainly a perceived outcome. it might as well have been black face.
Boiling an ethinicity down to a particular facet ... whatever, I don't think they are doing that, in the same way that when they were in Japan and went out with those bands on their head they weren't saying that Japanese people are recognized only by them. They just tried to look like Japanese and they chose that. Better choice than the facial expression, of course.

As I have said before, tell me what other expression is going to point to the oriental people in a pic ( I suppose they hadn't any chinese clothes right there). Remember, in our country that expression isn't an insult, so when they did it they weren't insulting. Again, they were very wrong, but not insulting. Yeah, that doen't mean it wasn't insulting for asian people, that was their error.


[/quote]i sure hope people don't think of me only as what i look like...[/quote]

Your right sir. This forum is a good example, people (we) have thoughts of others without knowing how the other looks.


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LX: They were too naive.

Quote:
There is a big difference between recognizing differences in a respectful manner, and comically pointing out differences that are simply on the surface, in a way that does not allow for respect to be expressed as much as a lack thereof.
The question is they aren't pointing, they are trying to look like asian/chinese people to show their love. Bad idea, yeah, very naive, yeah, bad intentions, none.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:55 AM   #85 (permalink)
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did you notice that your post is very long
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:56 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ClingRap View Post
I'm actually not reading that much into it at all. I was merely considering the very real possibilities of it being interpreted as racist by a whole bunch of people, including myself, and the consequences of that historically.
Saying I don't know what I'm talking about while you not understanding what I'm talking about is a big "lol".
And I was pointing why it isn't a racism issue.

As I said in my previous post, in general terms, it can be understood so, but when you go to the particular things of the issue, it makes no sense.

So, who is not understanding? the man who talks in general way, or who talks about the real thing?
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:58 AM   #87 (permalink)
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did you notice that your post is very long
no :confuse:
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:59 AM   #88 (permalink)
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ok I was just asking
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:11 PM   #89 (permalink)
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ok I was just asking
no problem
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:35 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gurkang View Post
did you notice that your post is very long
thats would you do when you try to expose your ideas correctly.
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:41 PM   #91 (permalink)
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thats would you do when you try to expose your ideas correctly.
thanks, hope they are well exposed, after 2 hours trying it I use to loose the point.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:14 PM   #92 (permalink)
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As I have said before, tell me what other expression is going to point to the oriental people in a pic ( I suppose they hadn't any chinese clothes right there). Remember, in our country that expression isn't an insult, so when they did it they weren't insulting. Again, they were very wrong, but not insulting. Yeah, that doen't mean it wasn't insulting for asian people, that was their error.
what? that gesture is insult no matter where you are. I really hope you're just trying to defend their actions and that mentality actually isn't acceptable.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:40 PM   #93 (permalink)
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So if it was in Africa and they took a pic making their noses very wide, all would be cool right? Where do you draw the line, it doesnt take a genius to figure out some people will be offended, so why do it? It's a dumb move.
actually that's not a good comparison. Not all africans have wide noses - but all asians have slanted eyes. A better way to compare is if the Olympics were in Africa and the spaniards would paint their faces black. Would that be racist?

I think the only ones who would get offended is if you live in a country with a lot of "political correctness" thrown around or you somehow consider slanted eyes or black skin some kind of handicap.

Don't get me wrong - I think racism is a very bad thing. However, I also feel very strongly that political corectness taken to the extreme is a very bad thing.

And finally, even if this was a bad-taste photo, it's not the player's fault. It wasn't their idea, it was shot during a marketing shoot and if it's anybody's fault, it's whoever's created the script for that shoot (and the marketing people at the spanish federation who approved it).
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:51 PM   #94 (permalink)
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they fucked up. it was inappropriate. it was disrespectful. it was distasteful.

stop making up excuses for them. they should have known better

also

it has nothing to do with political correctness

political correctness is calling every asian, asian instead oriental

making gestures that mock their physical appearance is racist
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:54 PM   #95 (permalink)
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actually that's not a good comparison. Not all africans have wide noses - but all asians have slanted eyes. A better way to compare is if the Olympics were in Africa and the spaniards would paint their faces black. Would that be racist?

I think the only ones who would get offended is if you live in a country with a lot of "political correctness" thrown around or you somehow consider slanted eyes or black skin some kind of handicap.

Don't get me wrong - I think racism is a very bad thing. However, I also feel very strongly that political corectness taken to the extreme is a very bad thing.

And finally, even if this was a bad-taste photo, it's not the player's fault. It wasn't their idea, it was shot during a marketing shoot and if it's anybody's fault, it's whoever's created the script for that shoot (and the marketing people at the spanish federation who approved it).

Yes, because players have no say in what they appear in, hell give them all Nazi uniforms and they will wear'em and say "hey, wasnt my idea". Thats a load of bull.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:56 PM   #96 (permalink)
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they fucked up. it was inappropriate. it was disrespectful. it was distasteful.

stop making up excuses for them. they should have known better

also

it has nothing to do with political correctness

political correctness is calling every asian, asian instead oriental

making gestures that mock their physical appearance is racist
they are not mocking them, is simply as that. A gesture its a lenguage too. Is the same kind of political correctness.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:56 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TuggleBled View Post
they fucked up. it was inappropriate. it was disrespectful. it was distasteful.

stop making up excuses for them. they should have known better

also

it has nothing to do with political correctness

political correctness is calling every asian, asian instead oriental

making gestures that mock their physical appearance is racist
Prove it was a deliberate mock.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:00 PM   #98 (permalink)
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I have not weighed in on this, because I think you folks have been doing a good job without me. (except SJ)

Simplify it a bit

Is something "racist" even if the intent of the act is not meant in an insulting way?


If your answer is yes, than it was racist, if your answer is not, than it is not.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:00 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Deliberate or not, thats not what the fuss is about. I dont think anyone is accusing them of being outright racist, just ignorant to what many would interpet this gesture as being.

Ignorance of the law doesnt prevent you from being punished when you break it, same as the case in point here, perhaps, and i think for grow men, many living in the USA and Western culture a good portion or their entire lives, a few should know better, hell, im not the most senitive person in the world, but i would know better.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:00 PM   #100 (permalink)
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you're weak

i have a picture

you have nothing

buh bye
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