Jose & Team Spain - "PictureGate" - Page 3
Old 08-12-2008, 04:08 PM   #41 (permalink)
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whatever just leave this pic alone
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:17 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Jose PictureGate

I just wonder what people think about all of this. I did a blog on it and express my views and you are welcome to read it and react to it both here and on the blog if you like.

In short I still support Jose and think the reaction of some is way over the top. The extended version of my thoughts can be found here:

http://dinonationblog.wordpress.com/...ggers-support/
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:22 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I don't see this affecting Jose and his fans in Canada at all. Sure it was a racey & stupid idea to do the photo, but I don't see this being a distraction in Toronto at all. Maybe in Beijing right now, but not here. JMO
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:22 PM   #44 (permalink)
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This needed another thread?
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:22 PM   #45 (permalink)
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what picture?

Oh this picture



honestly i find it kinda funny lol. Big deal its a dam advertisment for some stupid company + its the entire team doing it not jsut him. Who cares its not like he was caught secreatly making fun of someone and a picture was taken. This is the companys falt and the spanish basketball luege

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Old 08-12-2008, 04:28 PM   #46 (permalink)
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This needed another thread?
Yeah, I'll merge it with the other one.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:34 PM   #47 (permalink)
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My bad I missed the orginal thread thanks for moving my post here
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:59 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Having an asian wife who had people in Mexico making the slanted eyes gesture as they walked by, I think it is an ignorant act. However there is a difference between knowing ignorance, and the kind of ignorance that comes out of just being naive. I suppose the Spanish team was collectively naive, but even if I give them the benefit of the doubt in that regard, the picture bugs the shit out of me. There is a big difference between recognizing differences in a respectful manner, and comically pointing out differences that are simply on the surface, in a way that does not allow for respect to be expressed as much as a lack thereof.

This whole kind of thing was featured in the last season of Extras. In that case it was the sweetest and most naive character that was caught in such a pose. And it was funny, because of the social awkwardness it created, along with the juxtaposition of what the audience knew of the character, with the poor choice of behavior.

If I just came across a picture like this I would be outraged. But the fact that it was done with apparently little thought put into it, and then apparently pulled from use, makes me a little ho hum about it. I didn't think the people in Mexico, who made faces in the presence of my asian wife, were actually all that mean-spirited. I felt bad for them as much as anything. Ultimately this kind of thing just demonstrates a certain lack of exposure to different cultures, and to the kinds of problems that being different can cause for people. Being on a national team represents the polar opposite of that kind of awareness, so I can see how they could all end up looking so fucking stupid. But in the meantime, I think Jose should shut up about how some of his best friends are Chinese, and offer a more substantial apology. And then it should just be done with.
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:00 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I just fail to see the problem. It's been blown way out of proportion by the media, IMO.
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:07 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I should clarify that I think the apology should not be to the fans or the european media necessarily, but to people of asian descent who would find it difficult to see that picture in a "loving" light. It would be nice if Jose could offer something to them which would allow them to see that their reaction is seen by him as merely illegitimate. Frankly, I find that more offensive than the picture, but again, I think it probably comes about from the awkwardness that was created more than anything else.
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:13 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Me and LX? On the same page?

The world is coming to an end!!
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Old 08-12-2008, 06:32 PM   #52 (permalink)
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i dont get how its racist :S
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Old 08-12-2008, 06:35 PM   #53 (permalink)
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just because they are making themselves look chinese with the little skinny eyes
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Old 08-12-2008, 06:52 PM   #54 (permalink)
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i dont get how its racist :S
I don't know if I would say it's racist. To me racism is something that involves a much deeper and harmful intent. It could probably be called racialist, but I would just call it stupid, and actually wouldn't even expect an outright apology as much as some regret. At least from the individuals involved. Whoever came up with the idea for the pose could apologize. The individuals in the picture should just say they wish it never happened. I wish I never saw it.

And Jump wishes he could be me. Just kidding Jump - but we've been on the same page before. Why must you put this wall between us? Can't our love prove to be bigger than some guy named Kobe?
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:41 PM   #55 (permalink)
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it's only racism it was meant as an insult, which I'm pretty sure it wasn't. It was just a marketing thing, associating the team with the oriental nature of the event. Furthermore, in Europe the "slanted" eye thing has no racial conotation, and in general there is little racism against oriental people in Europe (mainly because there are very few of them). This is clearly a misinterpretation - not sure why the big fuss about it ...


I mean, no one in their right mind would believe that this was meant as an insult to the chinese, and obviously they didn't realize it could be interpreted as such, otherwise they wouldn't have done it ...
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:20 PM   #56 (permalink)
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So if it was in Africa and they took a pic making their noses very wide, all would be cool right? Where do you draw the line, it doesnt take a genius to figure out some people will be offended, so why do it? It's a dumb move.
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:30 AM   #57 (permalink)
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i think it's racist because of all the things and gestures the spaniards could've selected to show their inherent "chineseness" they chose to "slant" or "wink" their eyes. Why choose that particular marker? Is that the essence of what makes a person asian? it's eurocentric arrogance, cultural imperialism, and white skin privilege at its finest. Having taught in environments where we had to deal with stereotypes, power, and representation, most students tend to know particular stereotypes of a cultural other better than particular aspects that make that culture meaningful to those who practice it.
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Old 08-13-2008, 06:35 AM   #58 (permalink)
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i think it's racist because of all the things and gestures the spaniards could've selected to show their inherent "chineseness" they chose to "slant" or "wink" their eyes. Why choose that particular marker? Is that the essence of what makes a person asian? it's eurocentric arrogance, cultural imperialism, and white skin privilege at its finest. Having taught in environments where we had to deal with stereotypes, power, and representation, most students tend to know particular stereotypes of a cultural other better than particular aspects that make that culture meaningful to those who practice it.
wowowowo, I think you have no clue what your saying, that's too much.

Eurocentric arrogance ... whatever. Call me when you find other expression that can be in a pic and that makes people think about chinese people: that's the wink that Jose was saying, wrong? yeah, of course. Racist? lol, your watching more that what can be watched right there, your putting preconceived ideas on this matter. At Spain, that expression isn't used as an insult, don't put your thoughts as the reason they did that, that's a epic failure.

Racism ... yeah, Spain is the European country that is trying harder to help the inmigration and make it sustainabled, but we are racist because some people made a wrong face expression.

Quote:
it's eurocentric arrogance, cultural imperialism, and white skin privilege at its finest.
I'm going to guess you have no clue what that expression means, because I don't want to think that you are calling us nazis. Yeah, that's the name that we give in Spain to the people who think so.
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Old 08-13-2008, 06:51 AM   #59 (permalink)
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whatever guys Jose apoligized
I dont care about the others
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:12 AM   #60 (permalink)
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wowowowo, I think you have no clue what your saying, that's too much.

Eurocentric arrogance ... whatever. Call me when you find other expression that can be in a pic and that makes people think about chinese people: that's the wink that Jose was saying, wrong? yeah, of course. Racist? lol, your watching more that what can be watched right there, your putting preconceived ideas on this matter. At Spain, that expression isn't used as an insult, don't put your thoughts as the reason they did that, that's a epic failure.

Racism ... yeah, Spain is the European country that is trying harder to help the inmigration and make it sustainabled, but we are racist because some people made a wrong face expression.



I'm going to guess you have no clue what that expression means, because I don't want to think that you are calling us nazis. Yeah, that's the name that we give in Spain to the people who think so.
I'm going to guess you're the one without a clue what this means rapsfan. the point clingrap was making was in many ways a deeply philosophical one that has a tradition in intellectual thought that dates back, at the very least, to the post '68 radicalisms that stem from europe in the first place. this, in many ways, is a deconstruction of inherent white/european/western privilege. one facet of this, and i don't mean to spek for cling on this one, is that what we may find inoffensive may be found to be completely offensive by others.

intent certainly matters rapsfan, but so do the unintended consequences of a poorly thought out publicity stunt. just because we don't find it insulting, doesn't mean that others won't. if we are aiming for an inclusive world, we need to take into consideration the wider impact of what we may construe to be a joke.

also, as cling alluded to, boiling an ethnicity down to a particular facet of their physical appearance subsumes the thousands of years of (proud) cultural experience underneath a surface difference. whether or not this was intended, it is certainly a perceived outcome. it might as well have been black face.

i sure hope people don't think of me only as what i look like...
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