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-   -   The jose question (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/jose-question-22259.html)

moremilk 02-20-2012 12:19 AM

The jose question
 
Some want to trade him, some want to keep him ... and some are not sure.
Most will agree that the type of team interested in him is a Lakers/Magic type of team, good but a little behind the leaders and lacking a good PG. There's no question Jose would be fantastic on both those teams (especially the lakers, where he could P&R with both AB and PG and could also spot up when kobe handles it).

So what it one of these teams comes to us with a package constructed around a late draft pick and expiring contracts (say a 23-26th pick), would you trade him? Chances are that pick will be a dud, it's unusual to get anything but a deep rotation player that late in the draft.

moremilk 02-20-2012 12:23 AM

I voted no because we don't really need the expiring contracts. I really, really doubt we'll be a player for any big name FA next summer, and even if we would, we can always amnesty Jose.

So the choice is between a late draft pick this summer (in a deep draft, so more valuable than usual), and the chance of an even better package next season. By keeping him, we can also increase our ability to put together a trade package for a disgruntled star. As unlikely as that is, it's still our best chance of ever getting an all-star to come here without overpaying through the nose.

Dark Knight 02-20-2012 12:34 AM

The way Jose's been playing, I don't think it would be that hard to trade him away for a pick between 17-23. Or maybe even higher.

But if we were to trade him for a later pick, I'd also want a younger-ish player coming back too to gel and grow with our other young guys.

Maybe something like Jose to San Antonio for their first and Cory Joseph.

jeffb 02-20-2012 12:39 AM

Mid to late first and a prospect......yes please.

Bill Haverchuck 02-20-2012 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moremilk (Post 617734)
So what it one of these teams comes to us with a package constructed around a late draft pick and expiring contracts (say a 23-26th pick), would you trade him?

Neither the Lakers nor the Magic have expirings to offer. The Lakers could offer Steve Blake and Luke Walton. Both of their contracts are the same length as Jose's (next year is the last year).

Quote:

Chances are that pick will be a dud, it's unusual to get anything but a deep rotation player that late in the draft.
The talent is definitely much much thinner as you get farther away from the lottery (tough to get anything good after pick 40), but there are still always some respectable players available, especially in a deep draft. The problem is being the team to make the right pick. If you can get 2 late firsts, I'd consider that. Having 2 shots gives you some much better odds.

Guys like Kyle Lowry, Wilson Chandler, Nicholas Batum, Aaron Afflalo, George Hill....these are guys the Raps could use, and they were all selected in the late first round during the past few years.

Bill Haverchuck 02-20-2012 03:39 AM

If the Raps trade him to the Lakers, I'd want the Mavs' pick too.

Obi-Wan Quinnobi 02-20-2012 06:44 AM

go for a mid to pick up rivers

Carlito 02-20-2012 09:47 AM

Jose has shown this year that he is one of the best pure PG's in the NBA ... even his defensive intensity has improved.
Given I don't believe we are going anywhere fast with respect to a championship ... trading for a mid to early late first rounder would be nice. With some luck (this is a needed ingredient in a draft), we may get a steal.

DanH 02-20-2012 11:21 AM

I think, considering the season he's having, we should be looking for either a prospect and late pick, or two late picks. And no way do we take back salary like the Lakers would send us unless we are getting both their picks (LAL + DAL) and a prospect (say, Ebanks). If we can't get an offer like that this year, better to wait for next year, or until the draft anyway.

Orlando is an interesting suggestion - they'd have to send back at least 7.825M to make it work. They do need a PG. So, their 1st this year, JJ Redick and Von Wafer would do it. Don't see it working any other way, unless they are willing to include Anderson as an incentive to take on salary (say, 1st rounder, Anderson, and Glen Davis or Jason Richardson) which I seriously doubt. But I don't know about Orlando's willingness to try to keep Dwight - seems like he's almost gone already - and those suggestions are stretches for Orlando to accept anyway.

LKeet6 02-20-2012 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck (Post 617750)
Neither the Lakers nor the Magic have expirings to offer. The Lakers could offer Steve Blake and Luke Walton. Both of their contracts are the same length as Jose's (next year is the last year).



The talent is definitely much much thinner as you get farther away from the lottery (tough to get anything good after pick 40), but there are still always some respectable players available, especially in a deep draft. The problem is being the team to make the right pick. If you can get 2 late firsts, I'd consider that. Having 2 shots gives you some much better odds.

Guys like Kyle Lowry, Wilson Chandler, Nicholas Batum, Aaron Afflalo, George Hill....these are guys the Raps could use, and they were all selected in the late first round during the past few years.

agreed bill. And an example from this year, in a supposedly weakish draft, marshon brooks at 25th.

JoeyJoJo Shabbadu 02-20-2012 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moremilk (Post 617734)
Some want to trade him, some want to keep him ... and some are not sure.
Most will agree that the type of team interested in him is a Lakers/Magic type of team, good but a little behind the leaders and lacking a good PG. There's no question Jose would be fantastic on both those teams (especially the lakers, where he could P&R with both AB and PG and could also spot up when kobe handles it).

So what it one of these teams comes to us with a package constructed around a late draft pick and expiring contracts (say a 23-26th pick), would you trade him? Chances are that pick will be a dud, it's unusual to get anything but a deep rotation player that late in the draft.

What would make you think his value is to other teams is this little and what would make you think he has no value to the Raptors. Honestly... I don't understand why anyone would ever make this trade.

And expirings count for complete nada these days, and with so much room already.

LKeet6 02-20-2012 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanH (Post 617782)
I think, considering the season he's having, we should be looking for either a prospect and late pick, or two late picks. And no way do we take back salary like the Lakers would send us unless we are getting both their picks (LAL + DAL) and a prospect (say, Ebanks). If we can't get an offer like that this year, better to wait for next year, or until the draft anyway.

Orlando is an interesting suggestion - they'd have to send back at least 7.825M to make it work. They do need a PG. So, their 1st this year, JJ Redick and Von Wafer would do it. Don't see it working any other way, unless they are willing to include Anderson as an incentive to take on salary (say, 1st rounder, Anderson, and Glen Davis or Jason Richardson) which I seriously doubt. But I don't know about Orlando's willingness to try to keep Dwight - seems like he's almost gone already - and those suggestions are stretches for Orlando to accept anyway.

that is a good trade for both teams imo. Esp with the 3pt shooting aspect from reddick. I don't love the trade, but as the old saying goes "both teams have to be a bit disappointed in order to make a trade work!"

moujik 02-20-2012 12:19 PM

I say it again: You've been spoiled by Jose's unselfishness and professionalism. You think it comes without saying. It doesn't. Everyone wants Russel Westbrook, me too, but no one will give it to you. If we draft a beast of a PG, then we can discuss Jose's situation, and won't even have to while our rising star is on a rookie contract.
Otherwise you might as well spell "cap flexibility" on empty seats at ACC.

LKeet6 02-20-2012 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moujik (Post 617797)
I say it again: You've been spoiled by Jose's unselfishness and professionalism. You think it comes without saying. It doesn't. Everyone wants Russel Westbrook, me too, but no one will give it to you. If we draft a beast of a PG, then we can discuss Jose's situation, and won't even have to while our rising star is on a rookie contract.
Otherwise you might as well spell "cap flexibility" on empty seats at ACC.

we're not taking jose for granted tho mate! it's because he's good that we consider trading him. Why talk about trading butler? the point is, anyone who is playing great is worth looking at trading.

and i don't want westbrook! OKC will not win the championship with him at PG.

moujik 02-20-2012 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKeet6 (Post 617799)
we're not taking jose for granted tho mate! it's because he's good that we consider trading him. Why talk about trading butler? the point is, anyone who is playing great is worth looking at trading.

and i don't want westbrook! OKC will not win the championship with him at PG.

and who would you rather have at PG right now? Ref-fav-Lakers won with Fischer, so I think there's a good chance Westbrook will have a ring one of these years.

Northern Neighbour 02-20-2012 12:43 PM

I would deal Calderon for a mid- to late-first round pick and an expiring contract. If the pick is late in the first round, then another prospect should be included.

I don't see LA trading both first-round picks to land Calderon. They may deal one along with a contract (to make the salaries work) and a young player, but both draft picks likely won't be in play.

I think Portland is a good fit with Felton and their first-round pick for Calderon. I know people want the Raps to acquire Batum, but I don't see that happening unless Toronto sends DD, Kleiza, or Johnson in the deal. Plus, if I'm BC, I would be concerned about the possibility of Batum leaving Toronto once he hits FA.

MrClutch 02-20-2012 12:45 PM

Im not trading calderon at the moment, hes worth alot more than we think

jeffb 02-20-2012 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrClutch (Post 617807)
Im not trading calderon at the moment, hes worth alot more than we think

Which is why you trade him

LKeet6 02-20-2012 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moujik (Post 617805)
and who would you rather have at PG right now? Ref-fav-Lakers won with Fischer, so I think there's a good chance Westbrook will have a ring one of these years.

westbrook is an insane athelte and a talented player. But his bball IQ is low and he makes bad plays. Plus he's a bit of a chucker. The debate over shoot-first/pass-first has been done, it's a taste thing. He's similar in style to Rose but his bad habits are more prevalent and Rose has said he wants to be more of a facilitator, whereas westbrook has never said that as far as i know. It has been witnessed a few times that durant gets frustrated with westbrook.

right now i would have, paul, rondo, rose, nash, d will, parker as definitely more valuable to a winning than westbrook.

also players like lowry (regularly getting close to a trip double,) curry, andre miller (what a class veteran he is,) lawson, j kidd are giving their teams what a PG really should provide. Balanced, intelligent play. Rubio is going to be amazing, probably by next season, he's already great.

i realise what i'm saying is controversial, just my opinion! I'm a classic, past-first PG fan.

MrClutch 02-20-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 617816)
Which is why you trade him

trading him means were moving steps back instead of moving steps up into making the playoffs for the future


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