The jose question - Page 2

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View Poll Results: Would you trade jose for a late pick (23+) and expirings?
Yes 7 13.46%
No 32 61.54%
I'd like just a little bit more to pull the trigger 13 25.00%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-20-2012, 02:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Which is why you trade him
Unless a GM from an opposing team blows your mind with an offer you simply can't refuse, then yes you trade him.
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Unless a GM from an opposing team blows your mind with an offer you simply can't refuse, then yes you trade him.
Obviously any deal has to make sense. Wonder what adding Ed Davis would get us. Or adding another player instead.......Amir instead of Ed?
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:32 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Obviously any deal has to make sense. Wonder what adding Ed Davis would get us. Or adding another player instead.......Amir instead of Ed?
don't think amir is getting it done jeff. contract quite a lot worse and less upside (that is debateable.)

amir seems to me one of those classic like, only his team sees his value. I thought doug smith was a bit harsh on amir. When the match-up is right he can be a beast at C and then he's good back-up at the 4 sharing some small mins with JJ and Kleiza.
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:40 PM   #24 (permalink)
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right now i would have, paul, rondo, rose, nash, d will, parker as definitely more valuable to a winning than westbrook.

also players like lowry (regularly getting close to a trip double,) curry, andre miller (what a class veteran he is,) lawson, j kidd are giving their teams what a PG really should provide. Balanced, intelligent play. Rubio is going to be amazing, probably by next season, he's already great.

i realise what i'm saying is controversial, just my opinion! I'm a classic, past-first PG fan.
I meant instead of Jose for us, not instead of Westbrook. Westbrook was just an example of opposite to Calderon but successful PG. Rubio is in fashion now, but does not impress me that much.
Can you imagine any of the better PGs you mentioned on our team right now instead of Jose? How long would it take for them to get frustrated and require a trade?
or even better - Can you imagine we don't have Jose, wouldn't you like to bring him here?
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:00 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I meant instead of Jose for us, not instead of Westbrook. Westbrook was just an example of opposite to Calderon but successful PG. Rubio is in fashion now, but does not impress me that much.
Can you imagine any of the better PGs you mentioned on our team right now instead of Jose? How long would it take for them to get frustrated and require a trade?
or even better - Can you imagine we don't have Jose, wouldn't you like to bring him here?
i knew u meant westbrook for us, i'm just a bit obsessed with not liking him! i have a thing against over-hyped players, in all sports, as well as the trend for high-scoring PGs. Run your team, score when the team needs you to. I just love nash man, will go a whole Q without shooting, then suddenly the team is struggling to score? he steps up and makes big shot after big shot. What a legend.

Rubio is definitely very fashionable, but really surprised you're not impressed by him. His passing is, imo, outstanding, and his scoring has been better than expected. I really believe he will be a huge player in the coming years. I hope he wins ROY over irving, who is good, but not great.

i can imagine those other players you mentioned playing for us next season and not being frustrated, but i do take your point.

when you said would i like Jose if we didn't have him, that did make me think a bit. I understand what you're saying. He's a bit old, has a history of injuries and due to that and inconsistencies over the last 3 seasons you could argue he's not worth his contract. Right now, he prob is worth the money.

there are PGs out there who could develop into what we need, guys i didn't list before. these are debateable of course. Lawson, conley, collison, augustin, etc. Or we could use jose in a trade for another position, an extra high(ish) pick, draft good young talent and take a risk with the PG. FA, Draft, trade for a guy not as good as jose but we take a risk and hope he improves, or accept a weaker PG but the other 4 positions are really solid.

my point all along has been i'm very open to all posiblities. Enjoying the debate tho mate, no sillyness, just saying our opinions.
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:26 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I also chose Westbrook as an example, because he's a type of player many seem to hope of drafting. I prefer Rondo, but he's unique.
Would I want Felton? - no.
Nash is great, but I'm sure people "would be open" to trading him were he in the same situation with us as Jose, so those dreams of Nash returning to Canada are not thought through in my opinion.
We can improve in every other position but we still need a PG. Maybe if Danny Ainge goes completely bonkers, we can snatch Rondo, but what are the chances of that.
I would be open to first talk about trading AB, Barbosa even Amir and only then Jose.
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:32 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I also chose Westbrook as an example, because he's a type of player many seem to hope of drafting. I prefer Rondo, but he's unique.
Would I want Felton? - no.
Nash is great, but I'm sure people "would be open" to trading him were he in the same situation with us as Jose, so those dreams of Nash returning to Canada are not thought through in my opinion.
We can improve in every other position but we still need a PG. Maybe if Danny Ainge goes completely bonkers, we can snatch Rondo, but what are the chances of that.
I would be open to first talk about trading AB, Barbosa even Amir and only then Jose.
i'm not one of the people who wants us to go for nash, much as i love him. He's less of an option than jose due to age. If we trade jose i want it to be for something that improves us going forward.

felton was getting good reviews at the start of the season and obv he was good last season, but yeah, i'm not sure about him at all either.

AB is more important to our present and future imo. Barbosa could possibly get us something, but prob not something as good as jose, Don't think amir can get us much.
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Old 02-20-2012, 04:23 PM   #28 (permalink)
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westbrook is an insane athelte and a talented player. But his bball IQ is low and he makes bad plays. Plus he's a bit of a chucker. The debate over shoot-first/pass-first has been done, it's a taste thing. He's similar in style to Rose but his bad habits are more prevalent and Rose has said he wants to be more of a facilitator, whereas westbrook has never said that as far as i know. It has been witnessed a few times that durant gets frustrated with westbrook.

right now i would have, paul, rondo, rose, nash, d will, parker as definitely more valuable to a winning than westbrook.

also players like lowry (regularly getting close to a trip double,) curry, andre miller (what a class veteran he is,) lawson, j kidd are giving their teams what a PG really should provide. Balanced, intelligent play. Rubio is going to be amazing, probably by next season, he's already great.

i realise what i'm saying is controversial, just my opinion! I'm a classic, past-first PG fan.
*applause*

Couldn't agree more.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:09 PM   #29 (permalink)
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The only thing we are going to get in return for Jose is youth. Whether it be in players or picks. There is nothing mind blowing at the other end of a Calderon trade. So basically we jettison all our veteran leadership and stability for a gamble, a maybe. With Val coming in next season we have real potential of having a fantastic pick and roll offense. throwing Jose away for a plus 17 pick is an absolute waste and will create a void at the 1 that will not be filled easily. This draft is looking unpromising at the 1. Bird said it on the BS report two weeks ago "if you a PG hold on to him" because there isn't any thing coming do the pipes.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:17 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Raptors need reconstruct team, need younger players for new dinasty. Calderon to old for this
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:30 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Raptors need reconstruct team, need younger players for new dinasty. Calderon to old for this
Yes but we also need someone like Jose at least for the next season, I say get young PG with the upside (by trading Ed, Amir, LK, Barbosa or whatever) and get him play of the bench next season.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:33 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Good idea, you need young PG, because you get Jonas Valanciunas who play very efective in P&R. I dont think Raptors next season win NBA championship, so you need 2-3 season to become team, find leaders. You need time
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:43 PM   #33 (permalink)
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*applause*

Couldn't agree more.
thank you sir, i'm always happy when my "wacky" theories get some support!

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Originally Posted by Scully View Post
The only thing we are going to get in return for Jose is youth. Whether it be in players or picks. There is nothing mind blowing at the other end of a Calderon trade. So basically we jettison all our veteran leadership and stability for a gamble, a maybe. With Val coming in next season we have real potential of having a fantastic pick and roll offense. throwing Jose away for a plus 17 pick is an absolute waste and will create a void at the 1 that will not be filled easily. This draft is looking unpromising at the 1. Bird said it on the BS report two weeks ago "if you a PG hold on to him" because there isn't any thing coming do the pipes.
you make some valid points there. One trade discussed was something like reddick, filler and a pick. You get a role player and a pick.

but i do take your point. Replacing jose would be tough, we shouldn't underestimate that when thinking about possible trades. I can see you think there is no worthwhile trade, i'm interested to see what BC can turn up if a trade is considered.

maybe something involving barbosa and ed is the better way to go.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:55 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Raptors one of the worst team in NBA, you dont have who lose. You have Calderon now, and what? i realy can't remember when Raptors something win with Calderon.

You need new team, with young player and after 2-3 season dominate in NBA league, like "Thunders", or "Bulls".
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:17 PM   #35 (permalink)
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LKeet6

Raptors one of the worst team in NBA, you dont have who lose. You have Calderon now, and what? i realy can't remember when Raptors something win with Calderon.

You need new team, with young player and after 2-3 season dominate in NBA league, like "Thunders", or "Bulls".
Its so ridiculous when people refer to youth as what turned around the the Bulls and the thunder. It isn't fucking youth it's having an MVP calibre player. you take D rose and KD out of the equation and you have a bunch of role players on sub .500 team. Youth doesn't do shit but stifle winning for two to three years. This team needs leadership, people who have played and won in the playoffs. Look at the meteoric rise of DD and Bargs, like we can sit through another 5 years of what ifs.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:22 PM   #36 (permalink)
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You have Jonas Valanciunas, now create team around him.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:32 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Too much youth = bad. However, this draft is supposed to be quite deep and the raps can't afford to wait for DD or another similar player, too much time was wasted with Bargs, now that he is a starting PF in the league, raps (and BC) can't afford to wait anymore. +, please don't be deluded by the whole, "let's save $" argument. What will the raps do in Free Agency, overpay some1 significantly?

Raps should be looking at decent deals, for example: Barbosa+Bayless for D.Harris and Utah's first rounder. Raps don't have to worry about keeping Bayless next year, don't have to worry about resigning LB. Raps get a decent player who has a chance at revitalizing his career in a different situation. Harris' play this season has been abysmal. Despite that, Utah are very close to a playoff spot. Their pick could be either at the end of the lottery (12-14) or mid first round picks if they make the playoffs (15-16). Also, Harris is an expiring next season and can play PG or play SG along Jose.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:36 PM   #38 (permalink)
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You have Jonas Valanciunas, now create team around him.
I would be very surprised if Val will get more then 18 min off the bench next season. I am quite certain in those 15 to 18 minutes he is going to collect alot of fouls. He is going to be pillar of this team in the future but he isn't going to any where close to KD and D rose. I'm thinking Gortat with a greater presence on the offensive glass by 2014. He isn't the type player you build around and if you were Jose would be the ideal IDEAL !! player for him to packaged with.

This team has start thinking like portland and denver; collecting savvy experienced players who play high IQ ball. Not playing Bingo every off season.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:50 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Its will be biggest mystake in Raptors history give JV 15min in game next season, I think JV can find many teams in europe where he can play ~30min every game. Sorry, i realy not understund why you drafted JV.

You need result today? or after 2-3 season? because if today, you make mystake.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:00 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I would be very surprised if Val will get more then 18 min off the bench next season. I am quite certain in those 15 to 18 minutes he is going to collect alot of fouls. He is going to be pillar of this team in the future but he isn't going to any where close to KD and D rose. I'm thinking Gortat with a greater presence on the offensive glass by 2014. He isn't the type player you build around and if you were Jose would be the ideal IDEAL !! player for him to packaged with.

This team has start thinking like portland and denver; collecting savvy experienced players who play high IQ ball. Not playing Bingo every off season.
I like this idea too. I cannot stand rooting for this team to tank every single season just in the hopes that we MIGHT get a decent pick that MIGHT turn into something good.
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