Jonas Valanciunas: False Messiah? - Page 6

Go Back   Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards > NBA Discussion > Toronto Raptors

View Poll Results: Have we been too easy on Valanciunas (in terms of not actively criticizing his game)?
Yes 15 19.48%
No 57 74.03%
Don't know 5 6.49%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-18-2012, 06:53 PM   #101 (permalink)
Kuzzy
is pounding the rock! (Edit)

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dario View Post
everyone was calling JV da franchise everytime he made a shot, it was bound to happen, such a thread like this.
Haha! So true. H beats his defender to lay it up with a nice hook and people get a hard on for him. But when he gets handled by the geezer Kaman, knucklehead Cousins, and nobody Patterson, everyone turns to the whole 'still developing' argument. If teams purposely give those guys touches to exploit JV, that's bad news.

Last edited by Kuzzy; 12-18-2012 at 06:58 PM.
  Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 07:00 PM   #102 (permalink)
Keep it simple

Senior Member
 
Dario's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 8,843
Representing:
Send a message via Skype™ to Dario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuzzy View Post
Haha! So true. H beats his defender to lay it up with a nice hook and people get a hard on for him. But when he gets handled by the geezer Kaman, knucklehead Cousins, and nobody Patterson, everyone turns to the whole 'still developing' argument. If teams purposely give those guys touches to exploit JV, that's bad news.
its true though, he's only 20. give him some time, he's going to have bad games, and good games.
Dario is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 07:11 PM   #103 (permalink)
Likes raw prospects with a great work ethic...

Senior Member
 
LKeet6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Liverpool (UK)
Posts: 2,002
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuzzy View Post
Haha! So true. H beats his defender to lay it up with a nice hook and people get a hard on for him. But when he gets handled by the geezer Kaman, knucklehead Cousins, and nobody Patterson, everyone turns to the whole 'still developing' argument. If teams purposely give those guys touches to exploit JV, that's bad news.
of course they fucking do, coz that's LOGIC!! jeez man.

the occasional great play shows what he's capable of and will hopefully do more of and the poor plays CAN and DO get erased from their game! Even average work-horse 2nd round picks improve their game in that way, let alone high lottery picks who a consensus of NBA GMs rate as a great prospect.

sorry, i rarely lose it like that with people on forums, but your post was awful.
LKeet6 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 07:19 PM   #104 (permalink)
it's time to empty the trash

Senior Member
 
Raptors1995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,025
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LKeet6 View Post
"false messiah" (the thread title) was too much imho.

no problem with you posing questions, or even opinions, but you should expect comeback when they're pretty incendiary.

let's go another way with this. is he a false messiah? NO, imho.

what do you think?
Actually read the title of the thread before you start putting words in my mouth. The False Messiah is followed by a question mark. It merely takes a vision of Valanciunas that’s being purported to us by management and putting it up for discussion/debate. I am expecting comeback and I think I’ve defended my position quite admirably, if I might add. Most of us are big Raptor fans on this forum, myself included, and want nothing but the best for our prospects. I wish all of our young players/prospects have successful careers in the NBA. It would be a dream come true for me to one day see us win a NBA championship. However, regardless of what I think, I’m always open-minded and willing to consider alternative viewpoints. I recall in the past, I would simply flip out if someone wrote Bargnani off. I’m actually a lot more receptive today to listening to differing basketball opinions/views related to our franchise rather than get carried away by all the hoopla. As a fan base, that kind of discussion and openness should be welcomed and is healthy. So if you think he’s not a false messiah, that’s your opinion and I applaud you for sharing it with us. I did not for a second write his future/career off. I do, however, take issue with BC selling him as a future franchise player. I think that’s a bit too premature. I’m not going to blindly accept what management’s telling us. If you actually look at my prior posts, I stated that the jury is still definitely out on that one.
Raptors1995 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 07:36 PM   #105 (permalink)
Likes raw prospects with a great work ethic...

Senior Member
 
LKeet6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Liverpool (UK)
Posts: 2,002
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptors1995 View Post
Actually read the title of the thread before you start putting words in my mouth. The False Messiah is followed by a question mark. It merely takes a vision of Valanciunas thatís being purported to us by management and putting it up for discussion/debate. I am expecting comeback and I think Iíve defended my position quite admirably, if I might add. Most of us are big Raptor fans on this forum, myself included, and want nothing but the best for our prospects. I wish all of our young players/prospects have successful careers in the NBA. It would be a dream come true for me to one day see us win a NBA championship. However, regardless of what I think, Iím always open-minded and willing to consider alternative viewpoints. I recall in the past, I would simply flip out if someone wrote Bargnani off. Iím actually a lot more receptive today to listening to differing basketball opinions/views related to our franchise rather than get carried away by all the hoopla. As a fan base, that kind of discussion and openness should be welcomed and is healthy. So if you think heís not a false messiah, thatís your opinion and I applaud you for sharing it with us. I did not for a second write his future/career off. I do, however, take issue with BC selling him as a future franchise player. I think thatís a bit too premature. Iím not going to blindly accept what managementís telling us. If you actually look at my prior posts, I stated that the jury is still definitely out on that one.
ok, cool. I respect the way you've articulated the point.

yep, i forgot to quote the ? appologies, that was not due to a lack of noticing it! Not sure the question mark makes a load of difference in terms of being an incendiary thread title but i respect your desire to spark debate.

i personally have seen enough of val to think he will be somewhere between a top 10 C and a franchise player. He's got all the physical attributes you could want (at 20, some improvements should come, naturally,) he looks like he'll be a good to great shot-blocker, he's extremely patchy on D but bodies up well imo, and then often loses position due to a mix of lack of strength and experience, both things that are easily gained.

offensively i've easily seen enough to think he can be great. Honestly. Not seen it regularly but a variety of ways of scoring, that i see no reason for him not producing regularly in 2 or 3 seasons.
LKeet6 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 11:21 AM   #106 (permalink)
contemplating

The Killing Joke

 
Claudius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burkina Faso, Disputed Zone
Posts: 10,030
Representing:
Send a message via MSN to Claudius
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptors1995 View Post
Yeah, okay many people are questioning him right now?? Question his performances NOW?, not future! Actually take the time to read my initial post/piece before jumping to that conclusion. I have made no conclusions on JV's future. BC has hyped this kid up as to one day assume the mantle as our franchise player. I'm merely raising a discussion based on his opinion/expectation, which I think is completely fair. I left it up for debate, which is what the question mark signifies.
I'm going to move away from the Harden piece that I posted yesterday.

I don't know if it was Colangelo specifically or if it was prognosticator's afterwards who 'hyped' him up and then Colangelo went with it. I don't ever remember reading 'franchise' type of player, but I could be mistaken.

Essentially, he's met all expectations.
Claudius is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 07:02 PM   #107 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 94
Representing:
Default

Yeah he is, there are plenty of better young players and prospects.
Mobat is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 07:10 PM   #108 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,432
Representing:
Default

JV isn't Tim Duncan or KG.

Anyone expecting to get a big of that calibre is going to be disappointed with JV...

That being said, I think that he MIGHT be able to reach a level close to that of David Lee (with better defense) if he works really hard and everything breaks just right.

It's going to take time though. I wouldn't put any huge expectations onto him until Year 3.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 07:12 PM   #109 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8
Representing:
Default

So sik to read all that bullsh

I tell you 2 things

1. Valanciunas is Raptors future
2. JV now is one of the best players on the floor

The people who critisize JV's
1. offence, have to tell that Raptors offence sucks especially when DD and AB playing, because now team play at all. DD has to see how ED dished a ball to JV vs. Cavaliers, that kind of play should be applied day and night. It is too early to expect Jonas to outplay every experienced center, but when Jonas is open please give him a ball.
Unfortunately DCasey nor DD is unable to understand that.

2. Defence; defence is not the top, but this is because he tries too hard to help other teammates. He talked about this with Lithuanian team coach, so I think soon he will defend better.

Fortunately, Raptors have started to play sth similar to basketball recently
1
mindis is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 07:30 PM   #110 (permalink)
Let's get this win, Raptors!

Senior Member
 
rockthetdot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,152
Representing:
Default

Worst thread of 2012.
rockthetdot is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 07:38 PM   #111 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 75,996
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockthetdot View Post
Worst thread of 2012.
thats saying a lot
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 10:05 PM   #112 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,624
Representing:
Default

I'm now convinced JV is the false messiah...because RAY ALAN ANDERSON is the true messiah
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 10:14 PM   #113 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,663
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudius View Post
That's poor on your part.

Look at the game over four quarters and you can see that essentially JV matches him.

JV over 4 quarters had 20/3/3

Duncan had 22/4/5.

Hell over four Duncan shot 10/17 (58%) and JV was 7/11(64%). So, JV essentially matched Duncan's statistical output that game and was more efficient than Duncan a player who gets more benefit of the calls from refs than JV. Yeah, if that was JV's best game....

Oh and you can check it for yourself here:

http://www.nba.com/data/html/nbacom/...00191_Book.pdf
We were talking defense, no? Offensively, he's bad, but he's not killing us because he doesn't take bad shots. The real problem is at the other end though, especially individual defense.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 12:47 AM   #114 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,722
Representing:
Default

JV is going to be great. A few years from now David Lee will be calling for double teams to help guard Jonas.
bjjs is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 01:12 AM   #115 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 6,973
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
JV is going to be great. A few years from now David Lee will be calling for double teams to help guard Jonas.
imagine JV 25-40 pounds heavier.. can't wait!
pzabby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 01:19 AM   #116 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 75,996
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
imagine JV 25-40 pounds heavier.. can't wait!
If he puts on more than 20lbs i'd be shocked.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24