Jonas Valanciunas: False Messiah? - Page 4

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View Poll Results: Have we been too easy on Valanciunas (in terms of not actively criticizing his game)?
Yes 15 19.48%
No 57 74.03%
Don't know 5 6.49%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-18-2012, 04:55 AM   #61 (permalink)
straight ballin'

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kristic<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <JV
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:38 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Drummond > Every single player on the current Raptor roster
Bravo! You just failed at humor.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:03 AM   #63 (permalink)
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There are tons of articles (at least in lithuanian) that Casey explained to JV that his time on court will decrease now to allow more time for Ed and Amir who got more experience and work well together (Casey's words).

It's already in the process it seems as JV's mpg went from 34 against Blazers to 14 in most recent games.
Guess Caseys job is at stake, so JVs learning process gotta be delayed for now.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:20 AM   #64 (permalink)
and that's the bottom line, cause JV said so!!!

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JV will come around. I don't think anyone expected him to come in and light it up. It isn't easy being a first year big man in the NBA.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:21 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
There are tons of articles (at least in lithuanian) that Casey explained to JV that his time on court will decrease now to allow more time for Ed and Amir who got more experience and work well together (Casey's words).

It's already in the process it seems as JV's mpg went from 34 against Blazers to 14 in most recent games.
Guess Caseys job is at stake, so JVs learning process gotta be delayed for now.
I hate this narrow focus... JV can improve and develop by the extra energy in practice, in the weightroom, and having more time to rest. The idea that young players only develop through gameplay is ridiculous. Most players actually do more developing in the offseason.... why? Because they have more time and energy to focus on skill development and physical improvement. The league is a grind, it wears young men out. The extra rest will give JV plenty of time and rest to improve while still getting decent minutes.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:52 AM   #66 (permalink)
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I hate this narrow focus... JV can improve and develop by the extra energy in practice, in the weightroom, and having more time to rest. The idea that young players only develop through gameplay is ridiculous. Most players actually do more developing in the offseason.... why? Because they have more time and energy to focus on skill development and physical improvement. The league is a grind, it wears young men out. The extra rest will give JV plenty of time and rest to improve while still getting decent minutes.
I don't argue "profit" of offseason and regular practices, but it has nothing to do with his play time now, does it? No matter if he spends 5min on court or 40 he will still do weights with the same energy etc.
I was merely talking about his actual playing experience which will be decreased, thus taking him longer to adapt.
Anyways, don't get me wrong, I thought he won't be getting more than 15mpg before season started and was surprised by the trust he was given as as 20y/o rookie. I do think though, that having those 15mpg from the start and keeping it consistent would have worked better than making him starter with 35mpg and then keep decreasing his role in the team, for psychology reasons.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:58 AM   #67 (permalink)
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I don't argue "profit" of offseason and regular practices, but it has nothing to do with his play time now, does it? No matter if he spends 5min on court or 40 he will still do weights with the same energy etc.
I was merely talking about his actual playing experience which will be decreased, thus taking him longer to adapt.
Anyways, don't get me wrong, I thought he won't be getting more than 15mpg before season started and was surprised by the trust he was given as as 20y/o rookie. I do think though, that having those 15mpg from the start and keeping it consistent would have worked better than making him starter with 35mpg and then keep decreasing his role in the team, for psychology reasons.
I actually see your point, but if he's struggling, his confidence needs to be protected. What you're going to see is his playing time increase gradually as the year goes on.... his confidence is of the utmost importance in his development. If you overplay him now and he loses it, he's lost for the year.... we can't afford our number one asset to have shattered confidence.

He's going to get his time, but there is also value to him seeing how other, smaller less talented players are handling the guys that he's struggling with. He's a smart kid, might be our smartest player actually. He's shown he can adapt, I expect he will. His confidence though is key. Casey needs to protect it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:16 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
tim duncan begs to disagree...
duncan had 26/6/5 that game on 55% shooting, if that was JV's best game ...
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:19 PM   #69 (permalink)
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I love reading jeffb address the fanbase. Hilarious.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:20 PM   #70 (permalink)
it's time to empty the trash

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Originally Posted by ollyaaa View Post
There's a '?' directly after..... Is something getting lost in translation here or are you just slow?

+100. Well said. I was going to write the exact same thing.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:22 PM   #71 (permalink)
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You mention horrible. You're either exaggerating for effect (and then bravo!) or we're watching two separate guys.

JV is below adequate right now. However, he's providing us more than Gray. We're not a championship/playoff squad. We're not. Therefore, you give the guy burn because he's part of that core that's been identified.

And trust me, if you've played any sport, playing against better competition does not destroy your confidence. Missing open jumpers, missing lay ups, missing dunks, that destroys confidence. Getting 'killed' just shows you how much harder you have to work.
he is not adequate at all, virtually every center we played against had a field day against him. Hibbert, Lopez, Pekovic, Duncan, Hickson, Cousins, Kaman - you name it. He's just unable to guard anybody in the post now.

As for playing against starters, lots of very good players started on the bench and had no problems going from there. If it takes getting killed to see how much more work you need to do, maybe he should be killed for a 3-4 minutes a game, so our entire team doesn't get added to the collateral damage category.

Finally, I don't know why he's neglected on the P&R, but he is. So until that changes, his offensive output is very low as well. And he wouldn't get replaced by Gray, he would be replaced by Amir. Gray should only play against howard and a few other really big centers and even then, only early in the games to prevent them from getting into a groove.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:26 PM   #72 (permalink)
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FYI, JV is younger than this year's another rookie, Terrence Ross.
JV hasn't played in American league and still getting adapted to the league.
Give him at least one year and criticize if there is no progress in skill improvements.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:27 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I can easily live with his defensive lapses because he improves upon them. You mention Chris Kaman, man, that guy is a legit C who's been playing in this league for a few years and has the respect of refs. He's 20! Take into consideration everything that the kid is facing and I think it's pretty evident that's he performing RIGHT at expectations.

As for someone saying he's not going to be an All-Star, again, that's such an easy thing to say. I can say that about any player coming into the league. And if you are sure of it, can you predict the next lottery for me as well? I would love to have those powers to see the future.

And if I read Andre Drummond's name one more time in relation to the Raptors, I think I may just scream.
It doesn't mean we can't take a critical approach to his game. Why can't we mention Drummond's name? I didn't even state that Andre Drummond would be better, but merely left an open ended question: what if that were the case one day? We passed on him and someone gets frustrated at the mere mention of the pick coming back to haunt us. That's what makes me want to scream. It's definitely within the realm of possibility that one day that could be the case.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:28 PM   #74 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

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Originally Posted by wchoi213 View Post
FYI, JV is younger than this year's another rookie, Terrence Ross.
JV hasn't played in American league and still getting adapted to the league.
Give him at least one year and criticize if there is no progress in skill improvements.
FYI, people's minds change here on a dime. Get used to it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:30 PM   #75 (permalink)
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what has JV done wrong so far?
the guy has shown the ability to stay on the court the majority of time compared to a lot of rookie bigs who tend to get into foul trouble fast
the guy is showing a decent mid range open jumper, has a soft touch inside and wants to tear down the rim any chance he gets
the only "complaints" i possibly have are his inability to grab the ball clearly on rebounds and instead bobbles it around a lot, but that's no different than the rest of the bigs on his team, and his D can improve, and he has a knack of trying to take the shot when he has the ball, but all these "complaints" aren't due to a lack of skill but due to being a rookie and not being used to the NBA, once he catches on completely to the level of play it'll all come together
JV has done nothing wrong so far. His play has been superb.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:33 PM   #76 (permalink)
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That worked out well with Bosh and Carter huh? Let's not forget that we would've needed to still sign him to an extension.

So, let's give up Val, Ross, Jose and they're likely be another asset dealt for Harden. If Harden doesn't resign here (I know he's restricted still....) what does that do for us? I like Harden a lot too, but he's quickly gone from underrated to way way overrated.
MVP makes a good point. I would take Harden. He's a RFA and we would have the first right to match any offer. But I would still make it conditional on it being a sign and trade.

Last edited by Raptors1995; 12-18-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:35 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
duncan had 26/6/5 that game on 55% shooting, if that was JV's best game ...
That's poor on your part.

Look at the game over four quarters and you can see that essentially JV matches him.

JV over 4 quarters had 20/3/3

Duncan had 22/4/5.

Hell over four Duncan shot 10/17 (58%) and JV was 7/11(64%). So, JV essentially matched Duncan's statistical output that game and was more efficient than Duncan a player who gets more benefit of the calls from refs than JV. Yeah, if that was JV's best game....

Oh and you can check it for yourself here:

http://www.nba.com/data/html/nbacom/...00191_Book.pdf
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:35 PM   #78 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

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but he's quickly gone from underrated to way way overrated.
perfect, he'd fit here like a glove.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:36 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Raptors1995 View Post
MVP makes a good point. I would take the elite shooting guard. He's a RFA and we would have the first right to match any offer. But I would still make it conditional on it being a sign and trade.
Ok, so do you address my point that it's worked out for us in the past trying to build around a SG?

We need to stop our addiction to flash names. Harden at his OKC contract was a bargain. Harden at a max contract, I'm not so sure of (in terms of building around that one contract).
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:39 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Harden is overrated now?
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