Jonas Valanciunas: False Messiah? - Page 2

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View Poll Results: Have we been too easy on Valanciunas (in terms of not actively criticizing his game)?
Yes 15 19.48%
No 57 74.03%
Don't know 5 6.49%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-17-2012, 12:37 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Good question/Thread Rap95,

In my opinion yes and there's nothing wrong with judging his game thus far. The Raps have been through over a quarter of the season already. This doesn't mean that a conclusion needs to be made about Valanciunas but there's enough to make necessary criticism. The reason many are defensive is because he hasn't looked too special for the most part and we all had hoped he would've gotten off to a better start. If he was playing like a leading Rookie Of The Year candidate,nobody who'd be saying" it's to early" or "he's just 20 years old" or" he's a few weeks into his rookie season" they would be saying "he's the franchise" and things of that nature. Personally,I like Jonas and think he has the potential to be a key contributor on a championship contending team,maybe even an All Star after working on his overall game with Hakeem Olajuwon (if this idea manifests)
but at the same time if he's what's standing in the way between the Raptors and acquiring a bonafied All Star like a Kevin Love,I would trade him with no hesitation.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:43 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
he's 20, making this all the more ridiculous. especially given that defence is most times the last thing to come to players, especially in a role where you're expected to be the team's anchor. he's a frigging kid still for god's sake! let him bulk up a bit. the intelligence is there, half the fouls being called are ghost fouls as he really is doing nothing apart from standing with his hands up. I have high hopes for him, and surely believe he can fill them, to at least some extent.



also, has anyone noticed how much better his D is playing along side davis than bargnani? that's something else people forget to neglect. early in the season I thought I was seeing good D from bargnani, but now that I see this front court defensively? he's a fooking pilon, 7 feet!
I swear i remember a post from you couple of days ago saying that Bargs is one of our best defenders
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:49 AM   #23 (permalink)
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hes a rookie smh
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:51 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by @BaileysBlitz View Post
Good question/Thread Rap95,

In my opinion yes and there's nothing wrong with judging his game thus far. The Raps have been through over a quarter of the season already. This doesn't mean that a conclusion needs to be made about Valanciunas but there's enough to make necessary criticism. The reason many are defensive is because he hasn't looked too special for the most part and we all had hoped he would've gotten off to a better start. If he was playing like a leading Rookie Of The Year candidate,nobody who'd be saying" it's to early" or "he's just 20 years old" or" he's a few weeks into his rookie season" they would be saying "he's the franchise" and things of that nature. Personally,I like Jonas and think he has the potential to be a key contributor on a championship contending team,maybe even an All Star after working on his overall game with Hakeem Olajuwon (if this idea manifests)
but at the same time if he's what's standing in the way between the Raptors and acquiring a bonafied All Star like a Kevin Love,I would trade him with no hesitation.
+1...If it was actually on the table, I would have definitely done that Calderon and Valanciunas trade for Harden.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:13 AM   #25 (permalink)
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If we are gonna judge by stats then...

Jonas avg so far

Season Team G GS MPG FG% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2012-13 Toronto 24 24 23.5 0.513 0.707 5.5 1.1 0.3 1.2 8.2

Amar'e Stoudemire rookie year

2002Ė03 Phoenix 82 71 31.3 .472 .661 8.8 1.0 .8 1.1 13.5

Emeka Okafor rookie year

2004Ė05 Charlotte 73 73 35.6 .447 .609 10.9 .9 .9 1.7 15.1

Tim Duncan rookie year

1997Ė98 San Antonio 82 82 39.1 .549 .662 11.9 2.7 .7 2.5 21.1


those 3 are the last 3 forward/centers to win the rookie of the year he doesn't look very far from Amare if you were to add 50% of his stats as a rough idea to what he could get if he had got 36 mins a game
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:22 AM   #26 (permalink)
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He's 2 months into his rookie season...
Sorry, not good enough! Rookies are supposed to be all-stars now
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:58 AM   #27 (permalink)
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+1...If it was actually on the table, I would have definitely done that Calderon and Valanciunas trade for Harden.
I would personally bet pretty strongly, that if the Raptors had a whip their dick out position to get Harden, they could've done it. Valanciunas and Ross for Harden would've been perfect trade for Thunder's needs post Harden (C and SG).

Would've left the Raptors barren but Harden is a 25/5/5 SG... maybe a future MVP contender... taking the superstar and figuring out the rest later is prob the best move
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:11 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Just read two interviews, with Sabonis and Kazlauskas. One of them thinks there's too little pick and roll on this team, and both said it seemed that JV's role is only to set screens and there are little plays for him.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:12 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I would personally bet pretty strongly, that if the Raptors had a whip their dick out position to get Harden, they could've done it. Valanciunas and Ross for Harden would've been perfect trade for Thunder's needs post Harden (C and SG).

Would've left the Raptors barren but Harden is a 25/5/5 SG... maybe a future MVP contender... taking the superstar and figuring out the rest later is prob the best move
The Raps probably had a good shot at Harden but unlike the Wizards,they won't publically admit it(which is a good thing).

I agree with the bold,
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:15 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by numbah eleven View Post
Just read two interviews, with Sabonis and Kazlauskas. One of them thinks there's too little pick and roll on this team, and both said it seemed that JV's role is only to set screens and there are little plays for him.
I agree with that. whenever he has gotten the ball in the post, most times he's made a play out of it, either scoring, or dishing to the open man. whether the open man drills it or not is not on him. his decision in the post is fantastic for his age.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:16 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I swear i remember a post from you couple of days ago saying that Bargs is one of our best defenders
way to read my post... I said I thought I was seeing good defence from bargnani, then I saw what davis brings
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:17 AM   #32 (permalink)
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The Raps probably had a good shot at Harden but unlike the Wizards,they won't publically admit it(which is a good thing).

I agree with the bold,
but you need to understand that noone thought harden would blow up the way he did, and he wanted the max... it was a gamble on houston's part, and if colangelo traded away his prized future asset to this team to pay the max to harden and he underperforms, well, hell, you get the gist.

plus I still don't think harden's a max player. great on one end, average on the other. that's a 14 mil/year player, not max....
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:30 AM   #33 (permalink)
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but you need to understand that noone thought harden would blow up the way he did, and he wanted the max... it was a gamble on houston's part, and if colangelo traded away his prized future asset to this team to pay the max to harden and he underperforms, well, hell, you get the gist.

plus I still don't think harden's a max player. great on one end, average on the other. that's a 14 mil/year player, not max....
you're right,he's probably not a max player and most people didn't see him blowing up this fast as he primary option BUT we can all agree he's an upgrade at a crucial position over Demar (and I'm a DeRozan fan)
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:58 AM   #34 (permalink)
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you're right,he's probably not a max player and most people didn't see him blowing up this fast as he primary option BUT we can all agree he's an upgrade at a crucial position over Demar (and I'm a DeRozan fan)
I don't want to overpay for someone and give up what could be a top 3 CENTER in the NBA one day. those don't come around too much. hell deandre jordan got what, 9 million a year? I can confidently say JV will be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> than deandre jordan
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:04 AM   #35 (permalink)
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LOL! You name a thread "False Messiah", but later agree with everyone saying he'll be good in the future. So what exactly did you expect from 20y/o rookie center this season, that didn't meet your expectations so bad? Were you imagining him pulling a team to playoffs by himself by any chance?


Gonna add few articles from Lithuanian media as this seems proper enough thread for that:
As some of you heard, Arvydas Sabonis and lith national team couch Jonas Kazlauskas were at ACC watching the games against Hawks and Rockets. Their intent was to talk in person with candidates to national team - Valanciunas, Kleiza and Motiejunas (from Rockets), but D-Mo was sent to D-league day before TOR-HOU game which was disappointing.
Sabonis gave short interview during the game:

In the interview after the game, he said he felt like at the concert at ACC, music was so load that players playin bball seemed just like some background to the show totally different experience from his times in NBA.
Both Sabonis and Kazlauskas agreed that Kleiza had a good first game, but lacked consistency against Rockets. Kazlauskas said he would like Kleiza to be more active, not just shooting 3s, but that's likely Casey philosophy as he plays completely different with national team.
As for Valanciunas, they said he's very young and got to work hard, however were disappointed to see no PnR plays for JV, they felt like setting up screens is his only role at the moment for the Raptors. Couch Kazlauskas would like to see JV moving under the basket more, but on the same note added that it won't have much use as long as he doesn't get the ball from his teamates. In the end he made remark that he will put to use JV's PnR skills and other talents in the national team this summer, so I look forward to seeing what he's capable under different couch.

Full articles in original language:
Arvydas Sabonis: NBA ? kaip koncertas, tik krep?ininkai po aik?tel? b?gioja | 15min.lt
Jono Kazlausko ?sp?d?iai i? Toronto: Jonas Valan?i?nas nesijau?ia gerai, buvo apmaudu nepamatyti Donato Motiej?no | 15min.lt
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:30 AM   #36 (permalink)
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This fanbase is so fucked up sometimes!!
Or most of the time like you !!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:27 AM   #37 (permalink)
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first off, hes not the messiah, he has potential to be an amazing player.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:32 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Umm, a bit too early to judge him I think?
He's spent right now from the the whirlwind his life has been over the last three months.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:52 AM   #39 (permalink)
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This fanbase is so fucked up sometimes!!
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Originally Posted by Raptors1995 View Post
Iím not judging his future. Actually take the time to read the ENTIRE PIECE!! I raise questions. How dare we as a fan base say anything negative about one of our young players? Right? Thereís no question that Valanciunas is one factor among others that has hurt us defensively, but we rarely mention that? Obviously we can cut him some slack because heís a rookie and heís going to improve, but talking about some of his defensive woes somehow leads you guys to think I came to the conclusion that heís a bust. Far from true, I think he has potential and mentioned earlier that it's far too early to write him off. I do take issue with Bryan Colangelo trying to sell him as a future franchise player. I, for one, think thatís way too early. This fan base is fucked for taking a critical approach? Because Valanciunas is a rookie, doesnít mean he should be immune to criticism. In fact, itís actually healthy for us to take an holistic approach to his game.
Completely agree. JeffB is rarely right about anything to do with basketball, so I would disregard his disdain.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:55 AM   #40 (permalink)
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LOL! You name a thread "False Messiah", but later agree with everyone saying he'll be good in the future.
There's a '?' directly after..... Is something getting lost in translation here or are you just slow?
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