The Joke is on Us - Page 2
Old 03-18-2011, 07:35 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Bargnani is a good player. end of. He has skills and he has weaknesses. It's up to the coaching staff to figure out how to best use him. It's easy to hate on him, but to me in spite of his weaknesses, he is clearly one of the better players on this team. We need natural talent badly and this guy has it. Figure out how to best use it.
Everyone has talent in the NBA. That's how they make it in the league. The questions is: can you win with this talent? Do you want to go to battle with this talent. Look at Ben Gordon? Exceptional individual scoring talent, but brings little else to the table. You don't win games in the NBA with these type of players. Give me less scoring, and player that actually tries on the defensive end and rebounds (Nene, Horford) and this team is much better off.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:03 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Everyone has talent in the NBA. That's how they make it in the league. The questions is: can you win with this talent? Do you want to go to battle with this talent. Look at Ben Gordon? Exceptional individual scoring talent, but brings little else to the table. You don't win games in the NBA with these type of players. Give me less scoring, and player that actually tries on the defensive end and rebounds (Nene, Horford) and this team is much better off.
Ben Gordon was succesfull as a sixth man. If you're one dimensional, you should probably take on such a role. Too bad that hasn't been tried yet with andrea, but i think the fact that the rst of the team sucks as bad as it does has something to do with it.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:05 AM   #23 (permalink)
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One play last night where a piston went right into Bargnani for a layup, Bargnani didn't even contest it.. he just watched. I think it was Matt Devlin or Jack Armstrong who called him out... Bargnani is a liability, trading him this off-season is a must.
Like come on, Andrea takes charges in the defensive zone. I saw him take one about 5 games ago. The worst part is, when i think about it, i honestly can't think of another one he took all season. When i watch him, i literally think he's afraid of any contact because it might rough up his pretty face. He literally seems terrified of it, which i find kinda amusing considering he's usually one of the heaviest guys on the court. With him on the court you pretty much need four other above average defenders or he becomes a net net liability.
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Old 03-18-2011, 09:04 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I get the feeling that the big Italian pylon we have is similar to Bosh in the sense that their respective teammates are probably secretly rolling their eyes at their games.

I would love to see Bargs traded. I don't know what we would get for him. Probably not a lot. However I envision the Raptors becoming more cohesive with Bargs' departure.
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:03 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I get the feeling that the big Italian pylon we have is similar to Bosh in the sense that their respective teammates are probably secretly rolling their eyes at their games.

I would love to see Bargs traded. I don't know what we would get for him. Probably not a lot. However I envision the Raptors becoming more cohesive with Bargs' departure.
and it's funny because i feel like there's more cohesion this year than there was last year.
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:08 AM   #26 (permalink)
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The young gunz do a pretty good job of keeping everyone a part of the team. The chemistry is there which is why Bargnani could be great off the bench.
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:16 AM   #27 (permalink)
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and it's funny because i feel like there's more cohesion this year than there was last year.
that could be due simply to Mr "Don't Talk" leaving for Miami
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:23 AM   #28 (permalink)
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The young gunz do a pretty good job of keeping everyone a part of the team. The chemistry is there which is why Bargnani could be great off the bench.
Maybe that's it. Maybe this team's need for him to be a starter is what causes the issues. If he only had to play 15-25 minutes a game off the bench, the Raps could survive his babypoo defense. He could come in and light it up OR sit his ass down on the pine and there would be no pressure (on Triano) to bring him back on the court.

Let's get Ed Davis on the Jermaine O'neal prison work-out program! There's our starting center. Boom.
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:26 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I see this as the biggest problem the Raptors face going forward.

If I were the GM I'd be investigating signing Oden or Gasol.

If that doesn't work out, I'd draft Valanciunas or Kanter.

This situation has the potential to get ugly, it needs to be addressed ASAP.

I'd be happy with Bargs as an option off the bench, but he's not a starter.
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:36 AM   #30 (permalink)
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a Bargnani bashing thread and where is carp to defend his main man??
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:43 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
Bargnani is a good player. end of. He has skills and he has weaknesses. It's up to the coaching staff to figure out how to best use him. It's easy to hate on him, but to me in spite of his weaknesses, he is clearly one of the better players on this team. We need natural talent badly and this guy has it. Figure out how to best use it.
of course he has skills, but his weaknesses outweight his strengths at the moment. they're not even at par!
and the best way to use him is at a 6th man, instant offense role.
he's in his 6th year going on 7th year. he's peaked, he won't show us anything we haven't seen before
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:44 AM   #32 (permalink)
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need for him to be a starter is what causes the issues..
He's the "franchise" player, the one guy from training camp for which the coach declared there is no competition for his starting role.

Bargnani's role has to be developed by playing with his teammates. Labelling him as the best player before he has clearly become the best player is a farce. Maybe after coming off the bench he plays himself into a starting position again.

A new coach and GM might be what's needed to start this process since the current ones have are clearly sticking by the notion that he's irreplaceable offensively.
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:31 AM   #33 (permalink)
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He's the "franchise" player, the one guy from training camp for which the coach declared there is no competition for his starting role.

Bargnani's role has to be developed by playing with his teammates. Labelling him as the best player before he has clearly become the best player is a farce. Maybe after coming off the bench he plays himself into a starting position again.

A new coach and GM might be what's needed to start this process since the current ones have are clearly sticking by the notion that he's irreplaceable offensively.
18 wins so far mean that this team lack in overall talent you and the other on this forum really think that with another center this team could be a playoffs team or at least a much better team? I know that all you love effort over every other thing but some talent is needed. What I mean is I don't get all this hate on Bargs when the other players are worse why not bashing on them sometimes? For sure Bargs has a lot of flakes but who is such a great player on this team? Bytheway with Bargs out the record is 1-8 if i'm not wrong
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:47 AM   #34 (permalink)
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18 wins so far mean that this team lack in overall talent you and the other on this forum really think that with another center this team could be a playoffs team or at least a much better team? I know that all you love effort over every other thing but some talent is needed. What I mean is I don't get all this hate on Bargs when the other players are worse why not bashing on them sometimes? For sure Bargs has a lot of flakes but who is such a great player on this team? Bytheway with Bargs out the record is 1-8 if i'm not wrong
There's lots of truth in this.
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:01 PM   #35 (permalink)
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18 wins so far mean that this team lack in overall talent you and the other on this forum really think that with another center this team could be a playoffs team or at least a much better team? I know that all you love effort over every other thing but some talent is needed. What I mean is I don't get all this hate on Bargs when the other players are worse why not bashing on them sometimes? For sure Bargs has a lot of flakes but who is such a great player on this team? Bytheway with Bargs out the record is 1-8 if i'm not wrong
when ur the best player on ur team and the team is struggling, you usually get the blame. and the fact that he lacks effort doesn't help his cause.
who else on this team can you bash?
amir has been playing great this year
demar is in his second year and made great improvements and have ppl here considering him for MIP
the only other player that plays a big enough role on this team is Calderon and he has shared some of the blame
you can point out that the raps are 1-8 without him, but the other side to that is they are 17-41 with him....so that doesn't really indicate anything
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:15 PM   #36 (permalink)
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when ur the best player on ur team and the team is struggling, you usually get the blame. and the fact that he lacks effort doesn't help his cause.
who else on this team can you bash?
amir has been playing great this year
demar is in his second year and made great improvements and have ppl here considering him for MIP
the only other player that plays a big enough role on this team is Calderon and he has shared some of the blame
you can point out that the raps are 1-8 without him, but the other side to that is they are 17-41 with him....so that doesn't really indicate anything
on terms of pure math it does. 1-8 is .125, 17-41 is .413
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:21 PM   #37 (permalink)
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on terms of pure math it does. 1-8 is .125, 17-41 is .413
Not only that but look at the offense in games he's missed vs games he plays. It's clear that we just don't have enough firepower when Andrea's out of hte lineup. Can anyone find those numbers?
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:33 PM   #38 (permalink)
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on terms of pure math it does. 1-8 is .125, 17-41 is .413
WOW thats nearly a 0.3 raise in winning percentage! Bargs for MVP!!
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:34 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Bargnani is a good player. end of. He has skills and he has weaknesses. It's up to the coaching staff to figure out how to best use him. It's easy to hate on him, but to me in spite of his weaknesses, he is clearly one of the better players on this team. We need natural talent badly and this guy has it. Figure out how to best use it.
And what coaching staff could do that?

How do you utilize a big man who refuses to rebound and is absolutely clueless on D?
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:36 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Not only that but look at the offense in games he's missed vs games he plays. It's clear that we just don't have enough firepower when Andrea's out of hte lineup. Can anyone find those numbers?
You're really talking about firepower? Andrea Bargnani should never be the #1 option on any contending team. We have capable scorers on this team, the fact we don't win is not because Bargnani is out of the lineup. When Bargnani doesn't play we are playing very tough teams, teams we wouldn't win if Bargnani is even in the lineup. Some of those games were very close by like a couple point differential. So don't bring up that useless stat of being a bad team without Bargnani, because the team maintains its composure against very good teams without him.
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