Jeff Weltman to join Ujiri's staff after the draft? - Page 2
Old 06-25-2013, 01:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Getting Larry Sanders @ 15 and Henson @ 14 are absolute steals. They have their power forward and center for their future with mid first round picks. We still don't know what we got with Ross @ 8. Work your magic Mr. Weltman!
Sanders has been in the league 3 seasons so comparing him to Ross after his rookie season is stupid. In his Rookie season when he averaged 4ppg/3rpg they didn't know what they had either.

Henson just came off his rookie season, and although decent he played limited minutes and nobody really knows what he will be down the road. Far too early to say, just like Ross.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Sanders has been in the league 3 seasons so comparing him to Ross after his rookie season is stupid. In his Rookie season when he averaged 4ppg/3rpg they didn't know what they had either.

Henson just came off his rookie season, and although decent he played limited minutes and nobody really knows what he will be down the road. Far too early to say, just like Ross.
Yes, it is too early to judge Ross, but the value of the players they received @ 14, @ 15 is remarkable and the result of great scouting. Yes, choosing Drummond over Ross was a major mistake, but Henson would have been a great building block for the future:

Lowry, Derozan, Gay, Henson, Jonas.

Ross was a disapointment last year. When you're a No.8 pick in the draft after 2 years in college, and a journeyman like Alan Anderson is stealing the majority of your minutes, you need major improvement to your game.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:19 PM   #23 (permalink)
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joe alexander must have been real disappointing he looked great in college, athlete, looked like he can shoot and play d

then he went into the nba and looked like he couldn't do anything
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Happy?
No, cus we didn't pick Jermaine O'neal neither.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:48 AM   #25 (permalink)
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"Conspicuous by his absence at the Bucks’ workout Monday: assistant general manager Jeff Weltman, who is expected to take a similar job with Toronto any day now. Racine Journal-Times"
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:57 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Raptors since 2008 not too shabby
2008 1 17 Roy Hibbert (traded to Indiana)
2009 1 9 DeMar DeRozan
2010 1 13 Ed Davis
2011 1 5 Jonas Valančiūnas
2012 1 8 Terrence Ross
2012 2 37 Quincy Acy
2012 2 56 Tomislav Zubčić

Not great. Not one allstar out of that group, and not really any that are particularly close. Hibbert the obvious exception of course. I think as homer fans, we tend to overrate our prospects in comparison to others throughout the league.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:58 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I don't have a problem with our picks the last 5yrs. They were all later in the lottery, other than JV who imo could turn into an all-star.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:37 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Not great. Not one allstar out of that group, and not really any that are particularly close. Hibbert the obvious exception of course. I think as homer fans, we tend to overrate our prospects in comparison to others throughout the league.
are you serious? No All stars in that group, is that your problem? How about this, take ALL the players we COULD have drafted those 3 years and count how many all stars are in that bunch. Off the top of my head, other than hibbert, I think maybe one (was jrue holiday an all star this year?).
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:58 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I think maybe one (was jrue holiday an all star this year?).
yes
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:22 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Not great. Not one allstar out of that group, and not really any that are particularly close. Hibbert the obvious exception of course. I think as homer fans, we tend to overrate our prospects in comparison to others throughout the league.
derozan and davis are the only ones we can judge to any degree? Getting an all-star from 9th or 13th (by only their 3rd or 4th seasons,) would be amazing. Top 5 picks not becomming solid nba starters fairly quickly is disappointing, beyond that (and often before it,) many picks fail and i wouldn't call derozan or davis a failure. Val looks like he will be a solid starter, at the least. Ross was extremely inconsistent in his rookie season but has shown ability. Acy looks at the least a solid 2nd round pick.

It's disappointing we haven't "nailed" a draft pick in that time but i think it's a very respectable list, no failures.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:29 PM   #31 (permalink)
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are you serious? No All stars in that group, is that your problem? How about this, take ALL the players we COULD have drafted those 3 years and count how many all stars are in that bunch. Off the top of my head, other than hibbert, I think maybe one (was jrue holiday an all star this year?).
Yeah I'm serious... I said 'not great', as in not spectacular, not necessarily horrible as you seem to have read it to be.

It's just an opinion, you're free to disagree. I think we overrate our own picks.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:29 PM   #32 (permalink)
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derozan and davis are the only ones we can judge to any degree? Getting an all-star from 9th or 13th (by only their 3rd or 4th seasons,) would be amazing. Top 5 picks not becomming solid nba starters fairly quickly is disappointing, beyond that (and often before it,) many picks fail and i wouldn't call derozan or davis a failure. Val looks like he will be a solid starter, at the least. Ross was extremely inconsistent in his rookie season but has shown ability. Acy looks at the least a solid 2nd round pick.

It's disappointing we haven't "nailed" a draft pick in that time but i think it's a very respectable list, no failures.
I agree.... not great, but not a disaster. I don't think we should judge our picks solely on upside though, as some seem to prefer.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:41 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I agree.... not great, but not a disaster. I don't think we should judge our picks solely on upside though, as some seem to prefer.
we're getting down to semantics a bit here.

But to (arguably, not sure about ross yet) have zero failures in that list is pretty close to great imo. You're disappointed we haven't got a very good player out of those picks, i think you've done awesome or got a bit lucky to get a very good player with 9th and 13th picks.

but, i can see why you're a bit disappointed.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:53 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Raptors since 2008 not too shabby
2008 1 17 Roy Hibbert (traded to Indiana)
2009 1 9 DeMar DeRozan
2010 1 13 Ed Davis
2011 1 5 Jonas Valančiūnas
2012 1 8 Terrence Ross
2012 2 37 Quincy Acy
2012 2 56 Tomislav Zubčić

2009 - drafted DD ahead of Jennings, Jrue, Lawson...
2010 - I'm okay with Ed Davis pick
2011 - Perfect draft
2012 - drafted Ross ahead of Drummond. Also, could have swapped pick with Portland to draft Barnes at No. 6 (as GS wouldn't have selected Lillard at No. 7).

Not the best draft selections, but I think Raptors did "okay" in last 4 years.
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:14 PM   #35 (permalink)
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2009 - drafted DD ahead of Jennings, Jrue, Lawson...
2010 - I'm okay with Ed Davis pick
2011 - Perfect draft
2012 - drafted Ross ahead of Drummond. Also, could have swapped pick with Portland to draft Barnes at No. 6 (as GS wouldn't have selected Lillard at No. 7).

Not the best draft selections, but I think Raptors did "okay" in last 4 years.
jennings is not as good as DD, (being a good PG is harder it must be said.) Lawson was well below DD, i can see why, although he's turned into a good player. Holiday was also selected well below. I really think there's a fair amount of luck in drafting. There's tons of talent out there, good scouting will improve your chances of picking well, but it's so hard to be truly confident.

also i just feel like where the players end up is so important. If ross had ended up at GS i could easily forsee him being a good role-player in their playoff run. And barnes could've struggled with a young, inconsistent raps team.

thabeet, flynn and hill were drafted above DD.......
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:19 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Yeah I'm serious... I said 'not great', as in not spectacular, not necessarily horrible as you seem to have read it to be.

It's just an opinion, you're free to disagree. I think we overrate our own picks.
I had more of an issue with your criteria - all star selections for late lottery picks or worse are not very common, especially early in their career.

On the broader topic, I think the picks have been good to great tbh (depending on how ross fares). Save for ross, all players drafted in the 1st round are starter caliber and have all star potential. But more important, there are only a handful of players drafter after them that I would have preferred instead. To keep this exercise honest, only top 20 drafted players should count, since beyond that it's more or less random chance.
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