Jaycee Carroll Scores 44 Points - Page 3
Old 07-15-2008, 02:43 PM   #41 (permalink)
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SWAG.

I got news for ya, you will greatly improve your Won-lost record on these boards if you agree with me more.

I did agree with you. My first words were "I agree"

I actually agree with you pretty regularly...recall my "stop hating on Gilbert" rant.

At the same time...can I really improve my Won-lost record at this point?

And Snooch, I don't know what playing in Europe has to do with anything, Moon played in Mexico...that's somehow different?

Playing in Europe doesn't make you any less of an undrafted free agent. Nor does it help your NBA status any more than playing in the D League or whatever. My point was that guys signed out of free agent camps can make a difference, as Moon did, and that Moon is by no means a once in a lifetime player.

Other undrafted guys? Ben Wallace, Brad Miller, Raja Bell, Marquis Daniels, Earl Boykins, Bruce Bowen..shit, lets go back and toss Avery Johnson and David Wesley in there too. All signed as free agents, like Moon was. All at least as effective players (in their primes) as Moon is.

I'm by no means saying this guy is another one of those finds. I'm just saying to discount someone as "just an undrafted free agent" is to sell guys like Moon, Miller and Bowen short.
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:21 PM   #42 (permalink)
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No playing in Europe has to do with a player learning the game and playing against better competition. Look to AP for and example of how it can improve a player.

And miller would have been drafted if it wasnt a lockout year.
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:27 PM   #43 (permalink)
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No playing in Europe has to do with a player learning the game and playing against better competition. Look to AP for and example of how it can improve a player.

And miller would have been drafted if it wasnt a lockout year.
Again...what does that have to do with my statement?

Moon, as an undrafted free agent that contributes, is not once in a lifetime in any way. Whether or not a guy has played in Europe has no relevance to whether he is an undrafted free agent that contributes.

The conversation was regarding a player finding NBA success that same way Moon did, signing as an undrafted free agent through summer workouts and free agent camps. Any undrafted player can do that, regardless of where they play.

Yes, playing in Europe might help some improve, but it is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

And what does the lockout have to do with it? They held a full draft if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:41 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Adequate Swag View Post
Again...what does that have to do with my statement?

Moon, as an undrafted free agent that contributes, is not once in a lifetime in any way. Whether or not a guy has played in Europe has no relevance to whether he is an undrafted free agent that contributes.

The conversation was regarding a player finding NBA success that same way Moon did, signing as an undrafted free agent through summer workouts and free agent camps. Any undrafted player can do that, regardless of where they play.

Yes, playing in Europe might help some improve, but it is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

And what does the lockout have to do with it? They held a full draft if I'm not mistaken.
I dont think they had the draft that year-could be wrong though.

Not as much now because alot of talent from europe has already come over but the talent over the last 10 years in europe has far exceeded the talent level in North America outside of the NBA. So therefore a player coming out of that system would have more skill than a player out of the CBA.

Moon wouldn't have been seen as such a gem if the team didn't outright suck at his strengths. I cannot think of 1 starting small forward in the league that isn't better than moon. I mean I really like him but come on.
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Old 07-15-2008, 05:10 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Look what kinds of players Europe brought over to NBA:

Tony Parker
Ben Gordon
Hedo Turkoglu
Dirk Nowitzki
Peja Stojakovic
Luol Deng
Andrea (of course)
Pau Gasol
Ilgauskas
Mehmet Okur
Andris Biendrins
Vlade Divac
Danilo Gallinari
Jose Calderon
Rasho Nesterovic

This list goes on.....Europe has brought some great players to NBA
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:51 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Major View Post
Look what kinds of players Europe brought over to NBA:

Tony Parker
Ben Gordon
Hedo Turkoglu
Dirk Nowitzki
Peja Stojakovic
Luol Deng
Andrea (of course)
Pau Gasol
Ilgauskas
Mehmet Okur
Andris Biendrins
Vlade Divac
Danilo Gallinari
Jose Calderon
Rasho Nesterovic

This list goes on.....Europe has brought some great players to NBA
...?

Snooch's point was at least related to the discussion. This is totally out of left field. We're all aware there are good European players in the league. That has literally no bearing on our discussion.

Moving on...

Snoochie, I get what you're saying about europe being a better development grounds for a players game. However, the point I was trying to make is that where a player has played outside of the NBA doesn't make him more or less of a steal. Moon won a spot by impressing at free agent camps. He beat out players who played in Europe and players who didn't.

He's still an undrafted FA who won a spot through summer camps...where he played doesn't make him any less or more of a good deal. Moon would still have been a steal had he played in Europe.

His route makes his story a lot more intriguing, and it might have lowered his profile some, making it easier for the Raps to snag him, but he was a great find regardless.

Your point about Moon's actual abilities is well taken, as I agree that he is certainly a below average NBA starter. But at this point, any team in the league would love to have him coming off of their bench. He has proven himself to be a very legit NBA player, as countless other undrafted FA's have.

And I checked...it seems that they did have a draft in 98. Interestingly enough, the last overall pick? Maceo Baston
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Old 07-15-2008, 07:14 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Adequate Swag View Post
...?

Snooch's point was at least related to the discussion. This is totally out of left field. We're all aware there are good European players in the league. That has literally no bearing on our discussion.
I was referring more to this post. When I read it I was starting to think about all the European players brought over to NBA. Just thought i'd put my 2 cents in it is all....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoochieBoochie View Post
Not as much now because alot of talent from europe has already come over but the talent over the last 10 years in europe has far exceeded the talent level in North America outside of the NBA. So therefore a player coming out of that system would have more skill than a player out of the CBA.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:01 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Yes I do agree with you somewhat-he was a good find after being passed over by practically everyone. But if you look at the big picture--he made the team beacause of team needs and all we lost for it was Luke Jackson. At the beginning of the year he wasn't looked to bring anything other than another body. Between the coaches and his own hard work he carved himself out a niche on the team(something Joey hasn't done in 3 years, but thats another story)

Now dont get e wrong I love Moon and love watching him play, but there is still a reason why every team in the past pased on him-Great for us though.

And my Point with Moon being a one time deal is how oftern does a team have a glaring need, little money to spend and a 27 year old player who has played in every conceivable league come into free agent camp and impress everyone?

Adams did it this year for us but he has been in the NBA already.
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