Jay Triano - Defense is going to be very systematic
Old 08-28-2009, 04:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 128
Representing:
Default Jay Triano - Defense is going to be very systematic

Quote:
TC: What kind of defensive compensations do you have to make, especially with a starting line-up that is not strong defensively, to help keep the scores close before you shuffle in the defensive players on the second unit?

JT: Well, the one thing we are going to do this year is make our defense a system. It's not going to be about you and me, we're going to be very systematic, just like when we run an offense. There's not going to be a lot of questions or time to think about "what am I supposed to do on this?" We're going to keep it simple. We're going to have to make adjustments to it as we play in different games, but we're all on the same side about the scheme that we're going to play. And that will benefit our guys that maybe aren't excellent defenders because they'll know where their help is coming from and where to force their guy – we're going to keep it as simple as possible.
http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=288787
This sounds like a very logical plan but do you think it will work? Can anyone think of other teams that don't necessarily have the best defenders but defend well because of their teams defensive system?

Last edited by Ping; 08-28-2009 at 04:54 PM.
Ping is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 04:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
the next dictator of MLSE

fresh and clean
 
Windex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: uʍop ɹǝpun
Posts: 22,524
Representing:
Default

coach IV is helping
maybe Bargs can learn some help D
Windex is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 06:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 80,564
Representing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windex View Post
coach IV is helping
maybe Bargs can learn some help D
Bargnani will benefit from playing against Rasho/Amir/Evans in practice training camp/practices.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 06:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
the next dictator of MLSE

fresh and clean
 
Windex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: uʍop ɹǝpun
Posts: 22,524
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Bargnani will benefit from playing against Rasho/Amir/Evans in practice training camp/practices.
hopefully...but its only practice
he'll learn how to throw his new found weight around
Windex is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 06:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
A Celtic-Red Sox hater!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 511
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ping View Post
This sounds like a very logical plan but do you think it will work? Can anyone think of other teams that don't necessarily have the best defenders but defend well because of their teams defensive system?
From that paragraph, it sounds like he wants to force attackers to help, which is really the same system they played last season where they forced everyone outside and to baseline. Personally, i hate that system because it doesn't force you to man up and makes point guards look really bad because it's so easy to get blown by. Indiana plays the same defensive system and Jack use to get blown by constantly as well, trying to force the guy outside. It puts lot's of pressure on your bigs to stop everything and when they get in foul trouble like last season, they end up having to back off.

I would much prefer we man up more instead. We have better defenders this year and players become better defenders and take more pride in their defence when they are responsible for their man and not allways looking for help. I guess we have to wait and see.
tvett6 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 07:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
is pounding

Senior Member
 
VanCity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,985
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windex View Post
hopefully...but its only practice
he'll learn how to throw his new found weight around
are you saying hes gotton fat?...ouch...
VanCity is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 07:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 80,564
Representing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by A00715890 View Post
are you saying hes gotton fat?...ouch...
I think people are smoking something, he doesn't look much bigger if at all imo.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 07:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
the next dictator of MLSE

fresh and clean
 
Windex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: uʍop ɹǝpun
Posts: 22,524
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A00715890 View Post
are you saying hes gotton fat?...ouch...
muscle weighs more than fat
Windex is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 07:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
the next dictator of MLSE

fresh and clean
 
Windex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: uʍop ɹǝpun
Posts: 22,524
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
I think people are smoking something, he doesn't look much bigger if at all imo.
I was watching him play in Italy (on TV)
looks like he gained at least 10-15 lbs, moved a bit slower also
Windex is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 07:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
a Raptors fan

Free DeMar DeRozan

 
zachus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,833
Representing:
Default

Speaking of defense...

Not sure if anyone has been on CB's facebook lately, but he's definitely looking a little heftier on the muscle side. Hoping this translates to a better defensive season.

zachus is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 07:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
the next dictator of MLSE

fresh and clean
 
Windex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: uʍop ɹǝpun
Posts: 22,524
Representing:
Default

everyone's been visiting there local Chili's this summer
Windex is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 09:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 128
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvett6 View Post
From that paragraph, it sounds like he wants to force attackers to help, which is really the same system they played last season where they forced everyone outside and to baseline. Personally, i hate that system because it doesn't force you to man up and makes point guards look really bad because it's so easy to get blown by. Indiana plays the same defensive system and Jack use to get blown by constantly as well, trying to force the guy outside. It puts lot's of pressure on your bigs to stop everything and when they get in foul trouble like last season, they end up having to back off.

I would much prefer we man up more instead. We have better defenders this year and players become better defenders and take more pride in their defence when they are responsible for their man and not allways looking for help. I guess we have to wait and see.
Isn't forcing the attacker to the baseline and outside the basics of defense? The only other option is to let them through the middle.

I'm also not too sure if it's such a good idea to play man up defense though. What you're saying about taking pride of their individual defense is true but that would work negatively against our players as well since the majority of them aren't exactly known for their man to man D. But we'll see what happens.
Ping is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 10:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
LX
effin' ineffable

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 30,220
Representing:
Default

There's no reason they can't man up on the perimeter, while other guys trap and recover or just play some zone behind them to stop the ball. Once you stop the ball it's more about team defense in terms of rotations, mucking up passing lanes, and taking the offense out of a rhythm. Mostly they need to disrupt the offense at the point of attack right off, instead of letting the offense dictate everything from the point of attack. I don't see why they can't be much improved in that important sense.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2009, 03:18 AM   #14 (permalink)
soul searching in Cimmeria

asdfasdfadfa
 
soulstice99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 391
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windex View Post
I was watching him play in Italy (on TV)
looks like he gained at least 10-15 lbs, moved a bit slower also
Colangelo confirmed the weight gain in a recent interview.
soulstice99 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2009, 03:29 AM   #15 (permalink)
Kuzzy
is pounding the rock! (Edit)

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Representing:
Default

im tired of waiting... even looking forward to the pre-season!
  Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2009, 04:13 AM   #16 (permalink)
freshhhh

Member
 
Wiseguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 337
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ping View Post
Isn't forcing the attacker to the baseline and outside the basics of defense? The only other option is to let them through the middle.

I'm also not too sure if it's such a good idea to play man up defense though. What you're saying about taking pride of their individual defense is true but that would work negatively against our players as well since the majority of them aren't exactly known for their man to man D. But we'll see what happens.
forcing the attacker to the baseline and outside is not the basics of defence of general, only in this particular system. the whole point of it is acknowledging that the straight man defence is lacking but discouraging penetration through traping, help defence, playing the passing lanes. defence in general would be classified as stopping your opponent altogether on your own (in man 2 man) rather than relying on any help from teammates. personally i dont believe that letting/focring the defense to drive is a good idea at this level. players with anything resembling good court vision will be able to tear it apart if rotations are not perfect. if this defense works out it will be a testament to the coaching staff really emphasizing the importance of the system in training camp and getting the players to buy into it.
Wiseguy is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2009, 08:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 80,564
Representing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuzzy View Post
im tired of waiting... even looking forward to the pre-season!
Easy MARCO, it's coming. lol
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2009, 10:22 AM   #18 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 10,307
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ping View Post
This sounds like a very logical plan but do you think it will work? Can anyone think of other teams that don't necessarily have the best defenders but defend well because of their teams defensive system?
yes, orlando. Lee, Nelson, lewis and hedu are average or below average defenders. Sure, they have one defensive beast in howard, but the other 4 were not stoppers by any stretch. And yet, they were the #1 defensive team.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2009, 11:11 AM   #19 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

RF OG
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: At my house
Posts: 1,381
Representing:
Default

Forcing the ball to the baseline only works if the strong-side big comes out to cut the ball off and the two defenders trap, using the out-of-bounds as the "third defender". I don't think the Raps had smart enough players to pull it off last season. Maybe the new guys will grasp the necessary rotations better.

What we better damn well not see this year is all the switching on screens that was going on last season. It was just awful and cost them several games in the fourth quarter. What tvett6 said about needing to "man up" is spot on. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have a system of help-side and recover in place. It just means more responsibility on the individual defenders for staying in front of their man and fighting over screens.
Each player on the floor needs to be 100% clear about what their responsibilities are so their reactions are instinctive not hesitant.
I'd like to see Bosh act as the on-court "middle linebacker" so to speak. Talking, pointing and directing the show back there.
Dann38 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2009, 11:17 AM   #20 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 128
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by •LX• View Post
There's no reason they can't man up on the perimeter, while other guys trap and recover or just play some zone behind them to stop the ball. Once you stop the ball it's more about team defense in terms of rotations, mucking up passing lanes, and taking the offense out of a rhythm. Mostly they need to disrupt the offense at the point of attack right off, instead of letting the offense dictate everything from the point of attack. I don't see why they can't be much improved in that important sense.
I think the problem here is that most of our players don't possess that defensive "edge' to be able to read a play and get into position to help the man to man defender effectively. Where as what Triano's trying to do is have everyone know exactly where to space out on the floor as soon as an attacker has the ball. It dumbs it down but still leaves a bit of room for man to man D once you're in position. At least that's my thought on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiseguy View Post
forcing the attacker to the baseline and outside is not the basics of defence of general, only in this particular system. the whole point of it is acknowledging that the straight man defence is lacking but discouraging penetration through traping, help defence, playing the passing lanes. defence in general would be classified as stopping your opponent altogether on your own (in man 2 man) rather than relying on any help from teammates. personally i dont believe that letting/focring the defense to drive is a good idea at this level. players with anything resembling good court vision will be able to tear it apart if rotations are not perfect. if this defense works out it will be a testament to the coaching staff really emphasizing the importance of the system in training camp and getting the players to buy into it.
Unless you either get into the attackers face to the point he can't move, manage to push him back or letting him in through the middle there are no other choices than to push him to the outside or baseline.

I'll let Hubie Brown explain it...
Ping is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Better Defense = More Injuries? lumi398 Toronto Raptors 7 11-28-2009 02:32 PM
Defense Vs. Bulls gabe91 Toronto Raptors 12 11-13-2009 03:23 PM
Bargnani's defense moremilk Toronto Raptors 8 11-12-2009 09:56 AM
Raptors Defense Going As Jay Triano Planned It brothersteve Toronto Raptors 21 11-05-2009 03:03 AM
Zone defense? p2thaizarts Toronto Raptors 14 12-18-2008 09:28 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24