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-   -   Jack > Parker? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/jack-parker-9041.html)

henrymakepeace 07-14-2009 06:35 AM

Jack > Parker?
 
Jack is eight years younger and has better ball handling skills. His 3p percentage is only 35%.

Parker is more experienced and he has better 3 p percentage. He can also take and make the last shot. But he is 34 years old.

Would you rather give 4 Y, 20 M to Jack or match Cleveland's offer and sign Parker for 2 Y, 6M?

I'd rather keep Parker. It is less risky and even if Jack plays well, the difference will not be sunstential. I suppose Parker wants to move thinking he may win a championship there but keeping him could be a better option IMO. I applauded signing Jack at first but now I'm thinking Parker was the better choice. But he may already have expressed BC that he wants to go.

CB4Real 07-14-2009 06:51 AM

ok lets say we do keep parker and he is a shooting gaurd right? how does the mins for demar gona look like cause then we would have delfino, parker, and demar not enough for demar to grow. parker is slightly better than jack but jack was on the pacers where he dint have much to work with i think it will be easier for him to play with the raptors because of better bigs we have like bosh, bargs, etc

AR1815 07-14-2009 06:57 AM

I think at this point in both player's careers, Jack is certainly more talented, a better passer, and ultimately a better player.

However, AP brings a lot of experience and leadership to the table. In his prime, I think he could have been better than Jack, but he is getting old and I just can't see him outperforming Jack this season.

CB4Real 07-14-2009 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR1815 (Post 210827)
I think at this point in both player's careers, Jack is certainly more talented, a better passer, and ultimately a better player.

However, AP brings a lot of experience and leadership to the table. In his prime, I think he could have been better than Jack, but he is getting old and I just can't see him outperforming Jack this season.

agreed

Shifty.py 07-14-2009 07:31 AM

We cant "match the offer" and "keep Parker". He is free agent and its his choise which team to go. BC wanted to keep him, but Cleveland looked a better option i guess.

What I expect of Jack is second coming of TJ Ford. A player who penetrates and scores or finds other players.

Apollo 07-14-2009 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henrymakepeace (Post 210822)
Jack is eight years younger and has better ball handling skills. His 3p percentage is only 35%.

Parker is more experienced and he has better 3 p percentage. He can also take and make the last shot. But he is 34 years old.

Would you rather give 4 Y, 20 M to Jack or match Cleveland's offer and sign Parker for 2 Y, 6M?

I'd rather keep Parker. It is less risky and even if Jack plays well, the difference will not be sunstential. I suppose Parker wants to move thinking he may win a championship there but keeping him could be a better option IMO. I applauded signing Jack at first but now I'm thinking Parker was the better choice. But he may already have expressed BC that he wants to go.

They're a lot different. Jack is going to provide the other fist in the one, two punch that was once the PG combo of TJ & Jose. The good thing about Jack is that he's big and tough enough to play minutes at the 2 without being a liability.

henrymakepeace 07-14-2009 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo (Post 210838)
The good thing about Jack is that he's big and tough enough to play minutes at the 2 without being a liability.

I though he was only 6-3 tall??

henrymakepeace 07-14-2009 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty.py (Post 210837)
We cant "match the offer" and "keep Parker". He is free agent and its his choise which team to go. BC wanted to keep him, but Cleveland looked a better option i guess.

What I expect of Jack is second coming of TJ Ford. A player who penetrates and scores or finds other players.

Sorry, my bad. I thought he was a restricted free agent. We could offer him 3 year, 10 M.

Apollo 07-14-2009 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henrymakepeace (Post 210840)
I though he was only 6-3 tall??

So is Barbosa and Ellis. Jack is a good defender, he's tough. He could play some minute there and be far more effective than Kapono ever was.

With the potential Jack signing people need to look at what Raptors teams had success and what Raptors teams did not:

2006-2007: The team had two healthy, happy starting PGs. They fed off each other, although rarely played together. When one was on the bench the other was on the court. This allowed for little drop off when the second unit hit the floor. They won 47 games this year and were credited for having a strong bench even though most of the guys were totally off the radar.

2007-2008: A rift formed between the PG duo. Both suffered injuries and they wanted to start, which messed with the chemistry. They still managed to hold it together enough to make the playoffs.

2008-2009: The duo was split up. The Raptors were left with two options off the bench at the point. The first guy had no business being in the league and the second guy was a project. The Raptors struggled with bench production all season, missed the playoffs landing in the lotto.

Parker could play point but he was not a PG. He was a backup precaution. Jack is a true PG, good enough to start who could play the SG sometimes with Jose. I don't know about you but I would much rather have a starting caliber PG playing a few minutes at the two to get adequate time than an old SG on a fast decline forced to play out of position against much faster, younger guards. It didn't work last year, it would not work this year.

Superjudge 07-14-2009 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henrymakepeace (Post 210822)
He can also take and make the last shot. But he is 34 years old
.

You know Henry, I LOVE parker, but this point I have to argue. Parker routinely wilted under pressure down the stretch as a raptor. He missed a lot of important FT's, and thats not a good thing.

Superjudge 07-14-2009 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo (Post 210845)
Jack is a good defender, he's tough.

From day opne when they announced this, this is the one thing I was most pumped about.

I wanna make a post soon about Size and court presense. Toronto has a lot of good players with no presense, Jack had presense at the PG position, when he get to a spot on the floor, that becomes his spot, and if you want to limit penetration, this is an unspoken must. His polar opposite is Quincey Douby, you will NEVER win anything with guys like QD.

Acie 07-14-2009 08:54 AM

Do you mean Douby's physique?

Shifty.py 07-14-2009 08:59 AM

And mentality too I guess

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 210853)
you will NEVER win anything with guys like QD.

They won their 3rd summer league game ;)

AR1815 07-14-2009 09:07 AM

They're different players, that's true. AP is primarily a SG who can play some PG minutes. JJ is primarily a PG but can also be effective at the SG in limited minutes.

His toughness and defense, which are apparently two of his biggest attributes, will make the second unit very, very good. To be honest, with:

Jack/Derozan/Wright (one of the two, whoever doesn't start)/Evans/Rasho/Delfino(?)/Pops(?)

I really think we have one of the toughest benches in the league. We're no longer relying on POB, Douby, Ukic, Kapono, and Graham to play a lot of minutes. IMO, this will prove to be the biggest difference between this and last year's squads. Our starting 5 last year was pretty good already, even with an injured JO playing in the beginning. But, we were so thin on the bench, I think my middle school team would have given these guys a tough time.

Apollo 07-14-2009 09:30 AM

I agree 100% :yeah:

rodstriker 07-14-2009 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henrymakepeace (Post 210822)
Jack is eight years younger and has better ball handling skills. His 3p percentage is only 35%.

Parker is more experienced and he has better 3 p percentage. He can also take and make the last shot. But he is 34 years old.

Would you rather give 4 Y, 20 M to Jack or match Cleveland's offer and sign Parker for 2 Y, 6M?

I'd rather keep Parker. It is less risky and even if Jack plays well, the difference will not be sunstential. I suppose Parker wants to move thinking he may win a championship there but keeping him could be a better option IMO. I applauded signing Jack at first but now I'm thinking Parker was the better choice. But he may already have expressed BC that he wants to go.

Jack is a good shooter. He just doesn't take Parker's wide open 3s. He takes wild shots, just like Delfino sometimes.

takman_777 07-14-2009 09:39 AM

Apollo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo (Post 210845)
So is Barbosa and Ellis. Jack is a good defender, he's tough. He could play some minute there and be far more effective than Kapono ever was.

With the potential Jack signing people need to look at what Raptors teams had success and what Raptors teams did not:

2006-2007: The team had two healthy, happy starting PGs. They fed off each other, although rarely played together. When one was on the bench the other was on the court. This allowed for little drop off when the second unit hit the floor. They won 47 games this year and were credited for having a strong bench even though most of the guys were totally off the radar.

2007-2008: A rift formed between the PG duo. Both suffered injuries and they wanted to start, which messed with the chemistry. They still managed to hold it together enough to make the playoffs.

2008-2009: The duo was split up. The Raptors were left with two options off the bench at the point. The first guy had no business being in the league and the second guy was a project. The Raptors struggled with bench production all season, missed the playoffs landing in the lotto.

Parker could play point but he was not a PG. He was a backup precaution. Jack is a true PG, good enough to start who could play the SG sometimes with Jose. I don't know about you but I would much rather have a starting caliber PG playing a few minutes at the two to get adequate time than an old SG on a fast decline forced to play out of position against much faster, younger guards. It didn't work last year, it would not work this year.

this is one of the best stated posts on this whole issue... JJ will be a much loved player for this Raptors squad this year. he is versatile, young, can start at 2 positions and guard them both!! I love AP, but he is not able to play the defense required of a starting 2 at this point. he will be loved in Cleveland where he can come off the bench at both back court spots, but we needed a guy who can fill that role as a starter, we found one in JJ.

jeffb 07-14-2009 09:48 AM

Jarrett Jack>>>Parker

Jack is a good defender who gets to the rim, is younger and quicker.

Anthony Parker shot 39% from 3pt last season vs 35% from Jack. But that % was down for Parker and imo @ 34yrs it gonna go down some more. At their stages of their careers Jack is what we need.

takman_777 07-14-2009 09:49 AM

jeffb

+1

JJ is exactly what this team needs.

jeffb 07-14-2009 10:25 AM

Jack 25
Bosh 25
Bargnani 23
Derozan 19


Good young group to go forward with.


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