Jack Armstrong on the Fan 590 Criticizes Point guard play - Page 3
Old 12-12-2012, 02:11 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Sorry Carp.....Everybody needs TIME to SEE it before you start realizing how bang on Raptor123 is?

Thats why I don't get banned on here.....i just see the game differant compared tp others.....when the game slows down more and more get to see what the hell i am talking about.
I hear ya, you make some sound points. Others just can't see past the way you say it sometimes.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:20 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I hear ya, you make some sound points. Others just can't see past the way you say it sometimes.
Carp .......its probably the wrong place/thread to say this but if we trade Bargs and Caldy for Gasol the Lakers win this trade big time.There is something going on behind the scenes that stopping someone from pulling the plug. This is a one sided trade for the Lakers........BC makes this trade and i believe this will end the BC era in Toronto. Lakers can play the media, however the NBA knows that the Lakers could be snowing the Raptors.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:24 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Carp .......its probably the wrong place/thread to say this but if we trade Bargs and Caldy for Gasol the Lakers win this trade big time.There is something going on behind the scenes that stopping someone from pulling the plug. This is a one sided trade for the Lakers........BC makes this trade and i believe this will end the BC era in Toronto. Lakers can play the media, however the NBA knows that the Lakers could be snowing the Raptors.
Trust me, Gasol is the wrong move for the Raptors... I agree fully. What I worry about though, is the fact that Jose is all but gone in the offseason and we're going to have not gotten anytihing for him... and as much as some here think we should dump him and AB for nothing, that is exactly the worst thing we could do. This team is talent-starved and we're going to just give guys away?
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:29 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I prefer if we had a traditional PG who can set up others like a Nash/Paul or looking back in time a Stockton. I am not a fan of the combo G tweener, unless you can play like Derrick Rose. Hell Westbrook is a pretty selfish PG, but he's beside a Kevin Durant.

Lowry isn't a pass first point guard, at least not what I've seen so far. Calderon is more of a pass first, but his deficiencies on defence are just too much. What exactly was the reasoning behind Houston not wanting to keep Lowry? Didn't he have problems with the coaching staff?

Not sure what to say anymore.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:34 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Trust me, Gasol is the wrong move for the Raptors... I agree fully. What I worry about though, is the fact that Jose is all but gone in the offseason and we're going to have not gotten anytihing for him... and as much as some here think we should dump him and AB for nothing, that is exactly the worst thing we could do. This team is talent-starved and we're going to just give guys away?
You are absolutely correct Gasol is the wrong move for the Raptors......but the entire league knows that BC is behind the 8 ball.......we will get shit in return for Bargs and Calderon. Calderon is good as gone for the Raptors.......he will finish off his career as a Raptor as a professional whether hes traded this year or as a free agent next year.

When he leaves he will say all the right things....don't be surprised to hear him say that his move will be in the best interest of the Raptors....his heart will always have the Raptor on it.......hes taken alot of shit ....and hes handled it better then any other professional in any other sport i know.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:46 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I prefer if we had a traditional PG who can set up others like a Nash/Paul or looking back in time a Stockton. I am not a fan of the combo G tweener, unless you can play like Derrick Rose. Hell Westbrook is a pretty selfish PG, but he's beside a Kevin Durant.

Lowry isn't a pass first point guard, at least not what I've seen so far. Calderon is more of a pass first, but his deficiencies on defence are just too much. What exactly was the reasoning behind Houston not wanting to keep Lowry? Didn't he have problems with the coaching staff?

Not sure what to say anymore.
Bargs88 i agree...however Calderon last year was ok on d.....it was team d that made DC look like a super star......look at Lowry this year he looks just as bad as Calderon if you can keep track of blow bys......but Caldy is a better team defender.....he plays his role and he keeps the others around in check....Lowry however plays individual d you would call it hogging the ball on offence......Lowry leads the team in rebounds that shows a problem.....steal leader shows a problem......i hope i am saying it right but Lowry is a very big issue why we are in this position. Too many in the organization whether its the media TV or the management are tip toeing around the issue. Alot of the things that i say usually surface...i will not say that i have connections however i do live in an area where both coaching and tv personnel live.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:28 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Statisticly Lowry is doing about what he has done his entire career. He just is not as good as the toronto media made him out to be. It was the same thing with Turkoglu.

Its been happening since Tj Ford. The Raptors get a good point guard and make him out to be a super star and put Jose on the bench and Jose ends up being a little better pg then the starter. It happend when they tried this with Ford, Jack and its happening again.

Last edited by littleblue; 12-12-2012 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:18 AM   #48 (permalink)
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honestly, I have seen potential from this offense, when we get the ball movement going. it sucks that usually though, the play ends up being lowry comes down and shoots a 3, or passes to Bargs at the 3 pt line and he chucks it with 18 seconds on the clock. when everyone is passing to each other, that is when we excel best
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:20 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Trust me, Gasol is the wrong move for the Raptors... I agree fully. What I worry about though, is the fact that Jose is all but gone in the offseason and we're going to have not gotten anytihing for him... and as much as some here think we should dump him and AB for nothing, that is exactly the worst thing we could do. This team is talent-starved and we're going to just give guys away?
What GM is going to take on Bargnani and suffer the outcries from their fanbase? The dude is pretty toxic at this point. Maybe we can package him with Lowry. This team really is in a bad way. Not sure if you noticed. Things will probably need to get worse before they get better. That's what happens when the GM fails to make the appropriate moves at the appropriate time.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:47 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I can never understand why we gave up our first rounder to improve the position that we were perhaps best at when Jose was starting.

Top 5 in assists, amazing Assist/TO ratio, what more do you need.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:57 AM   #51 (permalink)
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I can never understand why we gave up our first rounder to improve the position that we were perhaps best at when Jose was starting.

Top 5 in assists, amazing Assist/TO ratio, what more do you need.
Someone that can bring speed and penetration and defense into the equation.

Problem is that Lowry doesn't look all that capable of doing that now either. He should have been sat down until his foot fully recovers. He's just making himself look bad at this point. Time to tank. Yay.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:12 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Someone that can bring speed and penetration and defense into the equation.

Problem is that Lowry doesn't look all that capable of doing that now either. He should have been sat down until his foot fully recovers. He's just making himself look bad at this point. Time to tank. Yay.
Was the foot thing actually true? Seems a bit of a desperate hope to me.

The most terrifying thing is that we actually WANTED NASH!!!! That would have been a disaster and I have no idea why'd you want him over Jose really (these days). They're the most similar to each other in the NBA!

I just think we should have concentrated on other areas of the team.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:30 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Was the foot thing actually true? Seems a bit of a desperate hope to me.

The most terrifying thing is that we actually WANTED NASH!!!! That would have been a disaster and I have no idea why'd you want him over Jose really (these days). They're the most similar to each other in the NBA!

I just think we should have concentrated on other areas of the team.

Jose is nothing like Nash. As for the foot that was actually true and looks to still be true. If you look at his play the last 2 years + start of this season and look at him now, he's simply not the same player. He's not 100%!
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:35 AM   #54 (permalink)
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I can never understand why we gave up our first rounder to improve the position that we were perhaps best at when Jose was starting.

Top 5 in assists, amazing Assist/TO ratio, what more do you need.

Me either, I remember how Cito Gaston used to coach the blue jays he would stick with his guns. The Raptors don't do that and it causes chemistry problems with the team imo. Guys like Lowry or Jonas are not more nba proven and should not be starting over guys that know how to play with the players on our team and know the team system better and have done well for us in the past. Jonas does not even play the 4th quarter why ruffle feathers by starting him?
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:58 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Jose is nothing like Nash. As for the foot that was actually true and looks to still be true. If you look at his play the last 2 years + start of this season and look at him now, he's simply not the same player. He's not 100%!
  • Same Height,
    Similar Weight,
    Both good shooters,
    Both pass first point guards,
    Both have good A/TO ratio year after year,
    Both players conduct themselves with professionalism, even in times of adversity,
    Both are known for being able to run the pick and roll/fade very effectively,
    Both poor on defence.....



Lol, yeh, like chalk and cheese huh Jeff.

I'm not disputing that KL is not 100%, but just out of interest, how do you know issues aside from health are not the main issues for his lacklustre performances?
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:03 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Me either, I remember how Cito Gaston used to coach the blue jays he would stick with his guns. The Raptors don't do that and it causes chemistry problems with the team imo. Guys like Lowry or Jonas are not more nba proven and should not be starting over guys that know how to play with the players on our team and know the team system better and have done well for us in the past. Jonas does not even play the 4th quarter why ruffle feathers by starting him?
Good point, although one thing Caldy prides himself on though is his professionalism. So we're lucky in that regard.

I agree with starting JV, however, taking him out down the stretch is ridiculous. That's when you learn the most!
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:08 AM   #57 (permalink)
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  • Same Height,
    Similar Weight,
    Both good shooters,
    Both pass first point guards,
    Both have good A/TO ratio year after year,
    Both players conduct themselves with professionalism, even in times of adversity,
    Both are known for being able to run the pick and roll/fade very effectively,
    Both poor on defence.....



Lol, yeh, like chalk and cheese huh Jeff.

I'm not disputing that KL is not 100%, but just out of interest, how do you know issues aside from health are not the main issues for his lacklustre performances?

Wow!

Nash pushes the ball, plays fast, takes risks, also looks to score, turns the ball over a fair bit. Both can shoot yes, but only Nash actually looks to effect the game with his shot while Jose is far too passive with his shot.

Their styles and careers are nothing alike. One is a HOF and the other has never even been an all-star. I'll grant you there are similarities but to ask why go after Nash when we have Calderon is just crazy talk.


As for Lowry we don't know, and that includes you. All we know is that he's only played 16 games, 12 of which it would appear while not being 100%. To read more into everything this early is nuts imo. But if you prefer Jose you're less inclined to give him the benifit of the doubt and vise versa.


BTW, Jack Armstrong isn't impressed with Jose either. I heard this interview yesterday and he called them both out.

Last edited by jeffb; 12-12-2012 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:28 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Good point, although one thing Caldy prides himself on though is his professionalism. So we're lucky in that regard.

I agree with starting JV, however, taking him out down the stretch is ridiculous. That's when you learn the most!
I think if you have a point guard that has played good to make another point guard a starter that does not know how to play with the group is a bad move. I think the team would have been better off if Johnson and Jose had of started instead of JV and Lowry. If say halfway through the season players are proving themselfs to be better then the starters then you change things up, but before a real game had even been played guys like Jose and Johnson were put on the bench for other players. It shows no loyalty in your players and probably nobody on the team respects it.

And don't think that Lowry and Jv don't feel bad when they have been given a job to do and they are not doing it as well as guys that have paid their dues with the team.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:06 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Wow!

Nash pushes the ball, plays fast, takes risks, also looks to score, turns the ball over a fair bit. Both can shoot yes, but only Nash actually looks to effect the game with his shot while Jose is far too passive with his shot.

Their styles and careers are nothing alike. One is a HOF and the other has never even been an all-star. I'll grant you there are similarities but to ask why go after Nash when we have Calderon is just crazy talk.


As for Lowry we don't know, and that includes you. All we know is that he's only played 16 games, 12 of which it would appear while not being 100%. To read more into everything this early is nuts imo. But if you prefer Jose you're less inclined to give him the benifit of the doubt and vise versa.


BTW, Jack Armstrong isn't impressed with Jose either. I heard this interview yesterday and he called them both out.
Historically speaking, Nash is obviously better, by a mile.. My point is that at this stage in his career, with our roster, other areas of the roster were far more worthy of major attention.

The same goes with KL Vs JC. KL is clearly better going forward, but our roster is so bad elsewhere it's kind of irrelevant.

I still think KL deserves more of a chance.

EDIT: Let's face it, they were trying to bring Nash here for marketing purposes and not much else.


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I think if you have a point guard that has played good to make another point guard a starter that does not know how to play with the group is a bad move. I think the team would have been better off if Johnson and Jose had of started instead of JV and Lowry. If say halfway through the season players are proving themselfs to be better then the starters then you change things up, but before a real game had even been played guys like Jose and Johnson were put on the bench for other players. It shows no loyalty in your players and probably nobody on the team respects it.

And don't think that Lowry and Jv don't feel bad when they have been given a job to do and they are not doing it as well as guys that have paid their dues with the team.
Good point.

Last edited by ollyaaa; 12-12-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:14 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I think if you have a point guard that has played good to make another point guard a starter that does not know how to play with the group is a bad move. I think the team would have been better off if Johnson and Jose had of started instead of JV and Lowry. If say halfway through the season players are proving themselfs to be better then the starters then you change things up, but before a real game had even been played guys like Jose and Johnson were put on the bench for other players. It shows no loyalty in your players and probably nobody on the team respects it.

And don't think that Lowry and Jv don't feel bad when they have been given a job to do and they are not doing it as well as guys that have paid their dues with the team.
This is an interesting post..

I somewhat agree that the chemistry issues apparent with Kyle starting would not occur with Jose if he was starting simply because he's been with us for so long, and he knows his teammates sweet spots and tendencies. With Lowry starting, it looks like each player tries to get his own, and it becomes pretty stagnant.

On the defensive end, it seems like the players who were here last year do a better job as oppose to the new players we've acquired, simply because they had a year to work with the system that Casey has implemented.

I really want to see how the team performs tonight with Calderon starting, and possibly starting again on Friday depending on Lowry's health.

Just want to watch the dynamics of the team, and overall effort.
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