Jack Armstrong brought up an interesting stat
Old 03-27-2010, 09:51 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Jack was talking about Bargnani yesterday and brought up an interesting stat. When Andrea gets atleast 6 rebounds in a game the Raptors are 23-14! Six?? Seriously, two things that stand out with that stat, first off it's unreal that Bargnani hasn't come down with at least 6 rebounds in almost half our games. Secondly, if this guy could just get consistanly 6-7rpg(wishful thinking would be 7-8), we'd be a pretty good team, especially with an upgrade @ SG. Can Bargnani average 7rpg sooner rather then later?
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Think after last nights game and how the coaching staff was/is going to be praiseing him for his rebounding he'll wake up...

Lets hope
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Bargnani 18 + 7
Bosh 24 + 12

= 42 + 19...

If we keep those guys next year, I bet that would be the most productive 4/5 combo in the league.
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
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it is amazing, isn't it?

andrea actually tried to box out and rebound last night and actually showed some frustration when he got boxed out by andersen and got a tech. i don't understand why he doesn't play with passion like that every night
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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sorry but Bosh made it clear yesterday.... Power Forwards dont win games.....and PF should not get max money
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:28 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I like aspects of Bargnani's game, but his passive nature can get frustrating at times. In my opinion, Andrea could average 7 boards a game. His per 36 minute numbers are up a bit from last year. Another year of conditioning might lead to further improvement. I'm not confident that you'll ever get more than 7 boards/per out of him, unless he plays alongside another weak rebounder. Bosh gobbles up a rebound here and there that Bargs might otherwise grab; Bosh wants it more.

And sorry to be a downer, but the fact that the Nuggets played a fair amount of small ball last night should be factored into Bargnani's reboudning performance. With Martin out of the lineup, Bargs frequently was covering a SF (Mello or Graham). Bargs has about 4-5 inches and a lot of wingspan on Mello and Graham.
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:57 AM   #7 (permalink)
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sorry but Bosh made it clear yesterday.... Power Forwards dont win games.....and PF should not get max money
like Duncan?
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Old 03-27-2010, 11:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
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sorry but Bosh made it clear yesterday.... Power Forwards dont win games.....and PF should not get max money
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like Duncan?
Or

Dirk Nowitzki
Amare Stoudemire
Kevin Garnett in his prime

and hell if you want to go way back and put them in there prime

Karl Malone
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Old 03-27-2010, 11:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Jermaine O'Neal
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Old 03-27-2010, 11:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Jermaine O'Neal
J.O pre-injury was a Monster scoring blocking and defensive machine!

If his knees didnt fuck up imagine the career he would of had.
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Old 03-27-2010, 11:24 AM   #11 (permalink)
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sorry but Bosh made it clear yesterday.... Power Forwards dont win games.....and PF should not get max money
Comments like this make my brain hurt.
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Old 03-27-2010, 11:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Jermaine O'Neal
What about him?
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Old 03-27-2010, 11:49 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Your starting 7'1" center should get 6 rebounds by default. Every night. No questions.
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I was talking to my brother last night and he made an interesting point.

Averaging 5 boards in a Euro league could be considered to be a consistent rebounder and a decent (not great) rebounder.

And maybe this is where Bargnani is. He sees his 5 and maybe wonders why do I need more? I'm pretty average. But maybe, just maybe he needs to get it drilled in his headn that to be an average C in the NBA you need to grab at least 8. Some days he seems to understand this, other days, he doesn't.

He needs to incorporate his 'Euro' game (shooter, space the floor out) with an NBA game (bruising). Nowitzki did it beautifully and I still see it in Andrea. He just needs to comit to it.
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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he's been playing in the NBA for awhile now, I'm sure someones mentioned it
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:34 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I was talking to my brother last night and he made an interesting point.

Averaging 5 boards in a Euro league could be considered to be a consistent rebounder and a decent (not great) rebounder.

And maybe this is where Bargnani is. He sees his 5 and maybe wonders why do I need more? I'm pretty average. But maybe, just maybe he needs to get it drilled in his headn that to be an average C in the NBA you need to grab at least 8. Some days he seems to understand this, other days, he doesn't.

He needs to incorporate his 'Euro' game (shooter, space the floor out) with an NBA game (bruising). Nowitzki did it beautifully and I still see it in Andrea. He just needs to comit to it.
So basically your saying after he gets about 5 boards in a game lets say 3 quarters through... He see's a shot being put up by one of his team mates and automatically he thinks in his head hey i already have 5 boards im not going to box out my man or even attempt jumping for the ball if it doesnt go in?

Really? You think he's thinking that on the court? Especially when after the coaches go over the stats with the players and say "We got drilled on the boards, we need more effort to crash the glass, Bargs / Bosh you need to box out your man more and get on the weak side, this is why we lost"

And Bargs sits there thinking "What are these coaches telling me I got my 5 boards im good"?

Come on...
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:49 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Jack was talking about Bargnani yesterday and brought up an interesting stat. When Andrea gets atleast 6 rebounds in a game the Raptors are 23-14! Six?? Seriously, two things that stand out with that stat, first off it's unreal that Bargnani hasn't come down with at least 6 rebounds in almost half our games. Secondly, if this guy could just get consistanly 6-7rpg(wishful thinking would be 7-8), we'd be a pretty good team, especially with an upgrade @ SG. Can Bargnani average 7rpg sooner rather then later?
You're mixing up correlation and causation. You're implying that the Raptors' record would be significantly better if Bargnani consistently got at least 6 rebounds per game ("if this guy could just get consistanly 6-7rpg(wishful thinking would be 7-8), we'd be a pretty good team"), but that simply does not make sense. In games when Bargnani does not get 6 rebounds, he usually has at least 2 or 3 (he's averaging over 6). How many losses do you really think could have been avoided with him getting 3 or 4 more rebounds? Maybe it's the other way around: maybe getting blown out against a good team leads to Bargnani and the rest of the team giving up early and thus not making as much of an effort to fight for rebounds. Or maybe he gets less rebounds when he (and the rest of the team) is, for whatever reason, fatigued, or unmotivated, and thus that leads to a likely loss as well as poor rebounding numbers.

Game-clinching rebounds only count when they occur in the last few minutes of extremely tight games, and they are few and far between (last night is a good example). One thing is to say we'd be a better team if he averaged 8+ rebounds/game, but that 6 rebound stat is entirely misleading.
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:50 PM   #18 (permalink)
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So basically your saying after he gets about 5 boards in a game lets say 3 quarters through... He see's a shot being put up by one of his team mates and automatically he thinks in his head hey i already have 5 boards im not going to box out my man or even attempt jumping for the ball if it doesnt go in?

Really? You think he's thinking that on the court? Especially when after the coaches go over the stats with the players and say "We got drilled on the boards, we need more effort to crash the glass, Bargs / Bosh you need to box out your man more and get on the weak side, this is why we lost"

And Bargs sits there thinking "What are these coaches telling me I got my 5 boards im good"?

Come on...
You're over simplifying it.

I'm saying maybe, he doesn't see the need to get into the paint as much because he knows he'll get his 5. I think that's what I'm alluding to.

Why?

Because one of his biggest issues is not playing in the paint as much. Maybe the coaches, showing him that stat, are asking him to be in the paint more.

It's not a concious decision, but more of a habit.
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Old 03-27-2010, 01:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Claudius View Post
I was talking to my brother last night and he made an interesting point.

Averaging 5 boards in a Euro league could be considered to be a consistent rebounder and a decent (not great) rebounder.

And maybe this is where Bargnani is. He sees his 5 and maybe wonders why do I need more? I'm pretty average. But maybe, just maybe he needs to get it drilled in his headn that to be an average C in the NBA you need to grab at least 8. Some days he seems to understand this, other days, he doesn't.
He understands that 5-6 rebounds for an NBA center is subpar. He's been in the league for long enough to look around and see what the norm/average is and know that he needs to do more. Hell anything written about him has his lack of rebounding incorporated. He's just complaicant at times, plain and simple. This could have been said his first season and maybe even his second season, but he knows better by now.
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Old 03-27-2010, 01:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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If Bosh doesn't leave and comes back with a greater effort then he had been before the all-star break along with Barg; if Barg work as hard as Bosh in the training camp this summer it's going to be huge. Turk he's just having a bad luck season that's all I think and hope he'll do good next year; I'll forgive him this year because it's his first year like every team he's been to he suck in his first year; also he went to NBA Finals last year with little to no rest he has to fly back to his home country to play for Turkish team? also this season he was injured a lot and has family issue; because of all those I can understand why he's doing horribly. Same goes for wright if he doesn't leave; he like Turk also has little to no training due to his injuries in the beginning of the season. The player we should keep or try to get back: Bosh(Doubt it), Barg, Hedo, Wright(A Possibility), Amir(I think he'll resign for sure?), Reggie, Sonny, Demar, and Jack; See if BC can get us an upgrade to SG for Jose, Beli, Banks, PoB, and Rasho
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