If we were to trade Bargnani, what would be a realistic trade scenario? - Page 17
Old 12-05-2012, 11:42 AM   #321 (permalink)
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They would want andrea for sure in any trade for pau. We could start talking about Calderon and Amir if Nash was out for the entire season.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:45 AM   #322 (permalink)
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I believe that AB is the cause of most if not all of this teams problems.
He has come into this season out of shape & many of us including his teammates, coach & GM were believing that he had become a better player that held him self accountable for winning & loosing.
That player has never seen the court this season & Casey has kept trying to see him come back in this young season, but enough is enough.

How can any player on this team be happy playing with him? He's not attacking, taking all jump shots, not rebounding or boxing out at all, but most of all he has gotten worse at defense than he has ever been. I swear almost every player on this has been scored on because of him not to mention how many times Amir, Davis & DeRozan have been dunked on because AB was late rotating or he just didn't rotate because he was too lazy and in dream land.

AB played the best ball of his career for 13 games last year & not even a quarter of that effort has shown this season.

He needs to be traded, his teammates hate him right now I can see it.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:35 AM   #323 (permalink)
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I believe that AB is the cause of most if not all of this teams problems.
He has come into this season out of shape & many of us including his teammates, coach & GM were believing that he had become a better player that held him self accountable for winning & loosing.
That player has never seen the court this season & Casey has kept trying to see him come back in this young season, but enough is enough.

How can any player on this team be happy playing with him? He's not attacking, taking all jump shots, not rebounding or boxing out at all, but most of all he has gotten worse at defense than he has ever been. I swear almost every player on this has been scored on because of him not to mention how many times Amir, Davis & DeRozan have been dunked on because AB was late rotating or he just didn't rotate because he was too lazy and in dream land.

AB played the best ball of his career for 13 games last year & not even a quarter of that effort has shown this season.

He needs to be traded, his teammates hate him right now I can see it.

I agree with many of your points above, but the GM and Coach should be managing the situation. If Bargs is such a cancer ... sit his ass on the bench or stands ... don't let him play. GM and Coaches get paid fucking well .. have some balls. If it's lack of balls, then they are dumb
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:42 AM   #324 (permalink)
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Our biggest problems are no role definition on offense and zero communication on defense. Our team on defense looks like 5 guys who have never played organized ball and just all collapse whenever someone penetrates.
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:58 PM   #325 (permalink)
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Bargnani and Calderon to the T-wolves for Pekovic and Ridnour.

We can't have JV as the starter until he gets more experience and a bunch stronger. He'll be a good one, maybe a great one in about 2 years time. Pekovic is a bull. Ridnour is a good back-up and veteran presence.
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:01 PM   #326 (permalink)
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Bargnani and Calderon to the T-wolves for Pekovic and Ridnour.

We can't have JV as the starter until he gets more experience and a bunch stronger. He'll be a good one, maybe a great one in about 2 years time. Pekovic is a bull. Ridnour is a good back-up and veteran presence.
Why does Minny do that though. They give up a starting C and an ok pg for an arguably better pg and a pf. They have Love and Pekovic which is pretty solid.
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:18 PM   #327 (permalink)
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Why does Minny do that though. They give up a starting C and an ok pg for an arguably better pg and a pf. They have Love and Pekovic which is pretty solid.
You're probably right. I'm trying to think of trades that can have the most benefit for us and may be plausible to the other team. Minny could shift Love to C and give some burn to Derrick Williams.

Our biggest shortcoming is D in the paint. I'd even go for a Bargnani/ Okafor swap. We need to reduce the time we ask JV to take on bigger stronger more seasoned C's until he learns the NBA game. You can't keep throwing rookies into situations where the odds are stacked against them. Gray isn't up to speed.

I'd still do the Calderon/Ridnour part.
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:43 PM   #328 (permalink)
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Why does Minny do that though. They give up a starting C and an ok pg for an arguably better pg and a pf. They have Love and Pekovic which is pretty solid.
Do a 3-way with Pau, if the Lakers decide to shake it up.

Based on the rumored Gasol trades:

Lakers get Bargnani, Calderon, Derrick Williams
Rockets get Pekovic + random short contracts/expirings
Wolves get Pau
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:14 PM   #329 (permalink)
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Do a 3-way with Pau, if the Lakers decide to shake it up.

Based on the rumored Gasol trades:

Lakers get Bargnani, Calderon, Derrick Williams
Rockets get Pekovic + random short contracts/expirings
Wolves get Pau
why in the world would wolves do that?
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:31 PM   #330 (permalink)
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If Pau can't be had I'd make a strong play for Gortat. Word is that he's still not thrilled with his role there in PHX.... and he's another solid 2-way guy who would look great next to JV (could mentor him too) and would give us a post presence.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:39 PM   #331 (permalink)
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If Pau can't be had I'd make a strong play for Gortat. Word is that he's still not thrilled with his role there in PHX.... and he's another solid 2-way guy who would look great next to JV (could mentor him too) and would give us a post presence.
you want a starting lineup of JV and gortat as a front court? poor lowry will have cm's to drive

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Old 12-08-2012, 07:41 PM   #332 (permalink)
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Gortat and JV are essentially the same player. No need to have them on the same team, and for sure not starting together.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:45 PM   #333 (permalink)
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Bargnani and Calderon to the T-wolves for Pekovic and Ridnour.

We can't have JV as the starter until he gets more experience and a bunch stronger. He'll be a good one, maybe a great one in about 2 years time. Pekovic is a bull. Ridnour is a good back-up and veteran presence.
That doesn't work financially under the CBA. Too much salary going into Minny's payroll without enough coming out. That's part of what makes trading with them so difficult; Minny doesn't have any really big contracts, aside from Love and Kirilenko but they are not getting included in a deal.

If you're sending Minny both Bargnani and Calderon, which amounts to roughly $20 mill in salary, then the T-Wolves have to send out more. Something like Pekovic, Ridnour (or Barea), Williams, and Roy. I don't see them doing that.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:54 PM   #334 (permalink)
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Gortat and JV are essentially the same player. No need to have them on the same team, and for sure not starting together.
That was my first thought when the deal was proposed last week in another thread. But then I immediately reconsidered because Gortat has a very good contract and other teams around the league will want him. So, if the Raps could ditch Bargnani for Gortat, I would want them to do it simply because it gets a piece back that has value. He could be moved a bit later for something decent.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:56 PM   #335 (permalink)
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That was my first thought when the deal was proposed last week in another thread. But then I immediately reconsidered because Gortat has a very good contract and other teams around the league will want him. So, if the Raps could ditch Bargnani for Gortat, I would want them to do it simply because it gets a piece back that has value. He could be moved a bit later for something decent.
That's no problem, so long as they together are not in our long-term plans. A three-team deal would then make even more sense...

I guess all the brass needs to do now is identify the core pieces they are committed to - and everyone else could and should go.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:15 PM   #336 (permalink)
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That's no problem, so long as they together are not in our long-term plans. A three-team deal would then make even more sense...
Sure, a 3 team deal makes sense, assuming it is an option. Obviously you do that if it gets you value that fits better with the roster's needs. But those are sometimes harder to pull-off. My point is simply that I would definitely take that deal regardless of whether we had to hold Gortat for a little while.

Even without Nash, Gortat is putting up 11/8 and 2 blocks in 30 minutes on just $7.5 mill per. It's good value. A team will eventually offer something decent for him. Similar to how Houston was willing to blow a chunk of cap space and poison pill to get Asik. Centers who can rebound and defend have pretty stable value. A guy like Bargnani is a fucking yo-yo.

Of course, that same logic makes it difficult for me to think that the Raps will be the ones to land Gortat, if Phoenix really starts looking to move him. We might have to take back a shit contract as well.

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Old 12-08-2012, 08:23 PM   #337 (permalink)
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Sure, a 3 team deal makes sense, assuming it is an option. Obviously you do that if it gets you value that fits better with the roster's needs. But those are sometimes harder to pull-off. My point is simply that I would definitely take that deal regardless of whether we had to hold Gortat for a little while.

Even without Nash, Gortat is putting up 11/8 and 2 blocks in 30 minutes on just $7.5 mill per. It's good value. A team will eventually offer something decent for him. Similar to how Houston was willing to blow a chunk of cap space and poison pill to get Asik. Centers who can rebound and defend have pretty stable value. A guy like Bargnani is a fucking yo-yo.

Of course, that same logic makes it difficult for me to think that the Raps will be the ones to land Gortat, if Phoenix really starts looking to move him. We might have to take back a shit contract as well.
all that talk about centres who can defend and rebound and their respective values gets me excited for JV. and worried at the same time. who here thinks JV could be the next player to get the max from tdot?
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:27 PM   #338 (permalink)
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Forget Gortat, R.Lopez's play when AD is out has been stellar.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:38 PM   #339 (permalink)
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Gortat and JV are essentially the same player. No need to have them on the same team, and for sure not starting together.
What's wrong with having 2 legit bigs who can defend, rebound and score in the post? Both have SOME range too... prob out to 16ft or so.

Ed and Amir are essentially the same player as well and I've enjoyed watching the two of them play together.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:47 PM   #340 (permalink)
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What's wrong with having 2 legit bigs who can defend, rebound and score in the post? Both have SOME range too... prob out to 16ft or so.

Ed and Amir are essentially the same player as well and I've enjoyed watching the two of them play together.
I gotta agree if we trade Andrea & keep Amir & Davis we don't need another big in return.
It would be nice but we need wing players more.
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