If Reports Are Correct Colangelo Casts Magic
Old 07-12-2010, 07:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
Pondering if these are BCs last days

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When I first heard of the potential three team transaction today I was upset. I dislike how BC as of today (potentially) has at one point, acquired 3 of his former players (Marion included there). His additions; Barbosa an overpaid backup tweener, Diaw an overpaid tweener, and Chandler an injury prone centre are not franchise altering.

But after closer examinations I can't help but approve of BC's moves. For the following reasons.

1) The end of Caldy, the addition of the Blur.

Aside from the wicked nickname, Barbosa is a solid scoring addition for this team. Leandro is a game changer off the bench with his ability to score. When you're playing with second tier NBA talent, scoring is worth more than playmaking skills. Barbosa had his playing time cut last season because of Dragic's development, and injuries, thus his stats took a serious hit. I believe Caldy is a superior pure playmaking point, but Barbosa is better on D, is 2 million dollars cheaper and is only signed through 2011-12 (if he exercises option).

Point BC for improving our bench scoring, saving 2 million per next 2 annum (if Barbosa exercises), and saving 10 million 2 years from now (when Caldy's in his last season).

2) Hedo the Horrible for Diaw

Aside from last season's similar statistics the Raps avoid paying Hedo for an extra two seasons at 11 and 12 mill. And save 1 million over the next two years (if Diaw exercises option). Diaw is a solid wing defender, and I see him as the Raptors starting three, creating scoring for Chandler/Bargs/Demar/ when Jack is struggling.

Point BC - similar production, better defense, younger player with more versatility, and a guarantee of no Hedo in 12-13, 13-14 for 11 and 12 per in his mid thirties.

3) Tyson for Evans/Jones

The key addition - Chandler comes off the books next season at 12 mill. When healthy Chandler is a premier defensive centre, who should complement Barg's 'soft' defense and exterior offense by cleaning the glass, changing shots, and being active around the rim. Even if he isn't healthy the Rap's will immediately free up salary. Evans is redundant with Amir, and Jones is a scrub.

Point BC, he takes on a big contract but it's off the books next year while addressing a serious need.

In conclusion, by adding three solid rotation players (Chandler, Diaw, Barbosa) in exchange for (Jose, Hedo, Evans) the Raptors addressed their biggest shortcoming last season (horrendous interior and wing defense) while offering short term financial relief from lengthy contracts. This will allow the Raptors significant cap space in two seasons. And avoids paying over 20 mill for two extra years to Jose + Hedo.

Last edited by Joshz; 07-12-2010 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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your initial response is typical of many raptor fans that don't take the time to objectively consider more than the rhetoric cast by the media. It's unfortunate, but I appreciate how you took the time to think outside the box in this instance. Good analysis.
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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your initial response is typical of many raptor fans that don't take the time to objectively consider more than the rhetoric cast by the media. It's unfortunate, but I appreciate how you took the time to think outside the box in this instance. Good analysis.
Can you share the objective points that he missed? That would be nice
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Can you share the objective points that he missed? That would be nice
never said he missed any....
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Can you share the objective points that he missed? That would be nice
He's just saying his initial response is typical for a Raptors fan who doesn't properly analyze everything.

This: "When I first heard of the potential three team transaction today I was upset. I dislike how BC as of today (potentially) has at one point, acquired 3 of his former players (Marion included there). His additions; Barbosa an overpaid backup tweener, Diaw an overpaid tweener, and Chandler an injury prone centre are not franchise altering."
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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your initial response is typical of many raptor fans that don't take the time to objectively consider more than the rhetoric cast by the media. It's unfortunate, but I appreciate how you took the time to think outside the box in this instance. Good analysis.
Alright...let's hear your analysis champ.
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I only posted because it seemed many forum members were negative towards the additions - this ideology confused me.
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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nice post Joshz

I still have a wait and see attitude, but I have to admit that I'm much more eager to see and less eager to wait.
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The players he brought in have expiring contracts, in 2 years we will only have a few people signed to the team... getting rid of the long drawn out contracts is BCs priority and he did that.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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nice post Joshz

I still have a wait and see attitude, but I have to admit that I'm much more eager to see and less eager to wait.
You can never say you are WRONG but you always are.

No trade is perfect and few benefit only one team.
When it was obvious that Bosh was saying Happy Trails to the Toronto Raptors.
Two other things must happen.
Turk needed to be moved and most on this board wanted him moved of anything. He had alienated himself in this city and the paying customers were not amused.
BC took the high road saying that he expected him back and how he could contribute to the Raptors next year. This built expectations that maybe just maybe Turk wasn't a bag of crap. Then he moved him to a team that many on the board swore would never do business with him Phoenix.

Is Leandro as good Turk?
No but they are different players.......Fire and Ice.
Both are versitile but Leandro can bring a spark by scoring when a team is stagnating. But this trade helps both teams it gives Phoenix size which they lost in Amare how he fits is up to the Phoenix coach. Raptor also got a smaller salary and a shorter term.
One of the point guards needed to be moved and Jose ( a great guy and player who loved being a Raptor) was the prime candidate. I though as many did we would be lucky to get someone like a Walton & Sasha trade. Again BC got a expiring contract in Chandler and useful big man. The reality was that Diaw was also part of the deal even though it shows as 2 parts. Diaw is basically a Turk light on offense and much better defensively.

In a few days of Bosh's signing with Miami he has remade the team and eliminated 2 albatrosses off the team. The team is now younger has more defense and more athletic.

Are these the 1st moves I think so.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lao Wai View Post
You can never say you are WRONG but you always are.

No trade is perfect and few benefit only one team.
When it was obvious that Bosh was saying Happy Trails to the Toronto Raptors.
Two other things must happen.
Turk needed to be moved and most on this board wanted him moved of anything. He had alienated himself in this city and the paying customers were not amused.
BC took the high road saying that he expected him back and how he could contribute to the Raptors next year. This built expectations that maybe just maybe Turk wasn't a bag of crap. Then he moved him to a team that many on the board swore would never do business with him Phoenix.

Is Leandro as good Turk?
No but they are different players.......Fire and Ice.
Both are versitile but Leandro can bring a spark by scoring when a team is stagnating. But this trade helps both teams it gives Phoenix size which they lost in Amare how he fits is up to the Phoenix coach. Raptor also got a smaller salary and a shorter term.
One of the point guards needed to be moved and Jose ( a great guy and player who loved being a Raptor) was the prime candidate. I though as many did we would be lucky to get someone like a Walton & Sasha trade. Again BC got a expiring contract in Chandler and useful big man. The reality was that Diaw was also part of the deal even though it shows as 2 parts. Diaw is basically a Turk light on offense and much better defensively.

In a few days of Bosh's signing with Miami he has remade the team and eliminated 2 albatrosses off the team. The team is now younger has more defense and more athletic.

Are these the 1st moves I think so.
You're singing to choir over here pal. I hear your voice and it's a beautiful thing. +1
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:24 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lao Wai View Post
You can never say you are WRONG but you always are.

No trade is perfect and few benefit only one team.
When it was obvious that Bosh was saying Happy Trails to the Toronto Raptors.
Two other things must happen.
Turk needed to be moved and most on this board wanted him moved of anything. He had alienated himself in this city and the paying customers were not amused.
BC took the high road saying that he expected him back and how he could contribute to the Raptors next year. This built expectations that maybe just maybe Turk wasn't a bag of crap. Then he moved him to a team that many on the board swore would never do business with him Phoenix.

Is Leandro as good Turk?
No but they are different players.......Fire and Ice.
Both are versitile but Leandro can bring a spark by scoring when a team is stagnating. But this trade helps both teams it gives Phoenix size which they lost in Amare how he fits is up to the Phoenix coach. Raptor also got a smaller salary and a shorter term.
One of the point guards needed to be moved and Jose ( a great guy and player who loved being a Raptor) was the prime candidate. I though as many did we would be lucky to get someone like a Walton & Sasha trade. Again BC got a expiring contract in Chandler and useful big man. The reality was that Diaw was also part of the deal even though it shows as 2 parts. Diaw is basically a Turk light on offense and much better defensively.

In a few days of Bosh's signing with Miami he has remade the team and eliminated 2 albatrosses off the team. The team is now younger has more defense and more athletic.

Are these the 1st moves I think so.

and your point is....?

I like Colangelo. He's a pretty slick guy. Talks well, takes risks, but most of his moves in Toronto have not worked out. Not some. MOST.

On the surface these moves do look pretty good for us when you look at salaries and how the cap will be affected, but from a basketball perspective the jury is out. Pardon me if i don't get gushy over the on court product when i know dick all of how it's going to look.

Yeah i'll take a wait and see approach before i buy my Diaw jersey.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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This deal, if it goes through is a fucking coup, and exactly the kind of move we needed to make.

If Chandler is healthy, he's Noah-lite, and a perfect fit for our scrappy young team. If he busts, then he's either a 13 million dollar trade bait, or an expiring contract. That's money.

As for the other two, I feel that Barbosa and Diaw are both overpaid, but they actually fill weaknesses we have, and they are both better value for the money than Turk and Calderon, for fewer years!

If this trade doesn't involve our TPE, then we've got even more flexibility, and could potentially taget Al Jefferson next!

The beautiful thing is that we got our pick back from Miami in the Bosh deal, so we can stink all we want and we can get a great pick next year, or we can actually turn some heads and surprise teams with our depth.

If Weems and DeRozan continue to develop along with Bargnani, we could surprise some teams this year.

Now, I feel that I'm probably drinking the Kool-Aid at this point, but honestly I like a nucleus of Jack, DeRozan, Weems/Diaw, Bargnani and Tyson (starting 5), with Barbosa, Diaw, ???, Davis & Amir off the bench.

We've all been asking for a more traditional roster, with fewer finesse players and more players who suck it up and play D. Wish granted!
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If we're going to go after a bigger name (with that TPE) it better well be a wing player. Maybe a point guard, but the last position i would look into would be a big. Just my opinion.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I hear your voice and I think you're a little loopy LW.

I never say I'm wrong? I guess you missed it when I said so yesterday, but that was regarding my support for BC in the Kapono signing, so I guess that doesn't count.

And how did my post in this thread differ from your views exactly LW? I said I was eager and see and less eager to wait, meaning I'd be happy to see this team play tomorrow. That seems pretty enthusiastic. And I have said much of what you just did, but in other threads, about how nice it was not to have to take any crap back in these deals. But I was WRONG as always. That's some loopy right there.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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If we're going to go after a bigger name (with that TPE) it better well be a wing player. Maybe a point guard, but the last position i would look into would be a big. Just my opinion.
Yep - no Jefferson please. I'd prefer a wait and see approach to using the TPE.

I'm with BBall on being happy with the prospect of some of those guys getting a shot at showing something. But give them an honest shot before making any move that is going to mean a bigger commitment to another player, unless it's an obvious fit of course.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I second the above, but this team is desperately in need of a young PG, if Rubio is available for a package including Weems + filler i'd trigger that.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:43 PM   #18 (permalink)
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If we're going to go after a bigger name (with that TPE) it better well be a wing player. Maybe a point guard, but the last position i would look into would be a big. Just my opinion.
PG and SF would be the spots to look.

Demar, Barbo and Beli is fine for sg
Kleiza, Weems aren't really starting material
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:49 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I second the above, but this team is desperately in need of a young PG, if Rubio is available for a package including Weems + filler i'd trigger that.
I can't really argue with that. I get a little suspect and nervous about the hype. I've watched the kid play overseas a little and have seen where he needs to get a bit bigger and a better shot, but there's no denying the results he's gotten and the potential. Getting a bit bigger and and a better shot is hardly out of the question. There's a part of me that would like to see him in Europe for a couple years yet though, particularly if there is a lockout. The more prepared he is when he gets here the better I think. But then I could be wrong. Or should I say WRONGGGGGGG!!!!
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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and your point is....?

I like Colangelo. He's a pretty slick guy. Talks well, takes risks, but most of his moves in Toronto have not worked out. Not some. MOST.

On the surface these moves do look pretty good for us when you look at salaries and how the cap will be affected, but from a basketball perspective the jury is out. Pardon me if i don't get gushy over the on court product when i know dick all of how it's going to look.

Yeah i'll take a wait and see approach before i buy my Diaw jersey.
These moves were primarily made to clear long term commitments, so they've already worked. If we're actually improved on the short run is 2nd objective. Personally, I hope we suck, we need a high pick next season. Let's not forget that our core players are demar, sonny, Amir, Davis, Andrea. I'd bet a large amount that the vast majority of the remaining players won't be on our roster in 2012/2013. All we have to hope for now is that the next cba eliminates the mle and creates a hard luxury cap, so that miami gets crippled ...
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