If not Beal - Marshall?
Old 04-30-2012, 12:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default If not Beal - Marshall?

Let's assume that, frustrating as it is, we end up with #8 pick in this draft. IMHO, our most pressing need at the moment is quality depth in the backcourt. Yes, I consider JJ/Kleiza combo more than adequate for 48 minutes at SF, while both Jose and DeRozan could either use better backups or be supplanted by better players into the backup role themselves.

I was really hoping for Beal. With his shooting prowess and strength, it'd have created a healthy competition at SG, something Demar hasn't had in Toronto since being drafted, while also solidifying the position no matter which player ended up as a starter. PG position would then be bolstered via free agency (yes, I know that Deron is a pipe dream, but other options are going to be available this summer as well).

Now, however, it appears that Marshall is a more likely candidate at our position in this draft. The main knock on him is shooting, not something I am really worried about and something that our coaches have proven to know how to improve in a hurry (JJ is a good example of that). On the other hand, he is tall, strong and a natural floor leader, who knows how to run the team and set up others, something that this team will absolutely need going forward. So, on paper at least, he looks like a definite upgrade over Bayless as a back-up to Jose and also someone who could take over as a starter in the near future. I haven't had a chance to watch him play - could someone who had please provide some feedback? Is he an NBA starter material?

If Marshall is drafted, I'd then suggest that BC should use all of his cap resources to acquire a starting quality shooting guard.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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As far as i seen him play Marshal seems like a best PG in this draft (I guess that isn't a very big praise) But i love his game his passing ability is absolutely amazing,he sees the plays before they actually happen and times his passes perfectly and on the money. A true floor general (he is a pure pg you can't teach that) His ability to score seems to be improving and that's why he moved up in the draft. My biggest concern is, would he be able to defend well enough in the nba.

Bottom line I really hope we will pick either him or Lamb
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
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yup, thats what i've been saying. anything out of the top 3 is on the same level. marshall can have a long career as a starting pg
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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what's marshall's athleticism like? that's obv one of jose's knocks.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think he's going to struggle with the athleticism at the next level.... and I think the Lillard kid will struggle with running the point, like Bayless has. I think we should avoid the PG's and target Lamb or trade out.... worst thing is to get stuck with yet another PF.

Beal was the perfect pick for us and we should still try and trade up for him.... throw Davis in to get it done, if not, Lamb or out. This team needs guys that can shoot and are still athletic enough to be at worst average defenders.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The one thing this team needs desperately is shooting, specifically from 3. And JJ/Kleiza more then adequate? They're far from adequate as neither is a starter in this league. Neither will be the starter for us next season unless we blow our wad on two other positions, but with BC coming out and saying their most pressing need is at SF, you can expect a new starter there. As for the draft I'm hoping we trade up or out if we stay at #8. Nobody out of the top 5 is all that great imo. Lamb seems to be our last hope at a decent player.

Last edited by jeffb; 04-30-2012 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The one thing this team needs desperately is shooting, specifically from 3. And JJ/Kleiza more then adequate? They're far from adequate as neither is a starter in this league. Neither will be the starter for us next season unless we blow our wad on two other positions, but with BC coming out and saying their most pressing need is at SF, you can expect a new starter there. As for the draft I'm hoping we trade up or out if we stay at #8. Nobody out of the top 5 is all that great imo. Lamb seems to be our last hope at a decent player.
I'd be happy if we "blow our wad" on 1 elite player (multi-player, possibly involving trading down or out with our pick,) get a good or very good player in FA and take a risk in the draft.

JJ could be our defensive specialist player but agree with you and carp that we need a pure shooter somewhere, and really it must be a 3pt shooter.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm starting to warm up to the idea of drafting Marshall.

Steve Nash is a decent comparison (for comparison's sake) as he is and will be an elite level passer in the NBA with below average defense. I think he will have a long NBA career and his leadership and passing will overshadow his defensive limitations.

Marshall looks a LOT like a BC pick, as he has championship pedigree, he seems to be a quality person and seems to be a really quality leader. If we pick him, I'd say let him develop under Jose for a year, then re-sign Jose for a 3-4 year deal to be the backup.

This happens every year…if we're picking 8th, I like 7 guys. If we're picking 5th, I like 4 players. I like a lot of different players in this draft for a lot of different reasons, but Marshall as a "consolation" prize could end up being best-case scenario.

Last edited by DSWC; 04-30-2012 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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We have to consider even that the #8 pick isn't our for sure, we could even be #11 due to the lottery and is important not to forget this (we still have to pay the luck we had in 2006 moving to the first overall from the fifth lol). In my opinion, the first thing is to draft a SF 'cause we're very lacking in it. Johnson has been solid some games, but hie's not a certainty, expecially for a team who wants to make playoffs next year. Kidd-Gilchrist is the main SF a team could pick, though he'll be a TOP 3 in my opinion. White has a possibility to arrive at our position I think, but there's still that "little" problem linked to the fear of fly (i seriously lold when I heard this the first time). So ok, we could pick but then? If he's a crysis even assuming medicine and we've to play in LA? He'll move by train?

Anyway, we could even draft Marshall at that position (I think he'll be in the late TOP 10) if really BC wants to trade JosŤ and that could be a nice move... Or trade pick+player(s?) to move up, but I don't think it's a real possibility.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I am really struggling to see what exactly are you guys missing from JJ/LK combo @ SF. They give you, alternatively, great defensive presence, shot-blocking, outside shooting and both are capable of rebounding, scoring down low and manning PF position in a small lineup. Especially to those liking MKG - what is it exactly that he would add to the list?

Beal would be ideal, yes, but if Marshall works out well for the team, I think I might be OK with him as a pick, probably because I am a huge fan of pass-first PGs.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I am really struggling to see what exactly are you guys missing from JJ/LK combo @ SF. They give you, alternatively, great defensive presence, shot-blocking, outside shooting and both are capable of rebounding, scoring down low and manning PF position in a small lineup. Especially to those liking MKG - what is it exactly that he would add to the list?

Beal would be ideal, yes, but if Marshall works out well for the team, I think I might be OK with him as a pick, probably because I am a huge fan of pass-first PGs.
My only issue is that we have too many guys that need time at PF.... including JJ and Kleiza. We need to balance this roster, and one of Ed, Amir, Linas and JJ should be dealt in an effort to attain a more traditional SG/SF type.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I am really struggling to see what exactly are you guys missing from JJ/LK combo @ SF. They give you, alternatively, great defensive presence, shot-blocking, outside shooting and both are capable of rebounding, scoring down low and manning PF position in a small lineup. Especially to those liking MKG - what is it exactly that he would add to the list?

Beal would be ideal, yes, but if Marshall works out well for the team, I think I might be OK with him as a pick, probably because I am a huge fan of pass-first PGs.
Same! And it's not that easy to find one, players like that are always valuable, because they make everybody around them better.
And for SF I would rather get one trough the FA than draft
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I am really struggling to see what exactly are you guys missing from JJ/LK combo @ SF. They give you, alternatively, great defensive presence, shot-blocking, outside shooting and both are capable of rebounding, scoring down low and manning PF position in a small lineup. Especially to those liking MKG - what is it exactly that he would add to the list?

Beal would be ideal, yes, but if Marshall works out well for the team, I think I might be OK with him as a pick, probably because I am a huge fan of pass-first PGs.
JJ isn't an outside shooter and Kleiza as much as I love him is not a consistent outside shooter. When your GM and coach are asked what the biggest need is and they point to the starting SF postion and 3pt shooting as our biggest needs it speaks volumes. JJ is even inconsistent at the defensive end at times as is Kleiza. I actually like both players a lot but they aren't good enough to start on a good team. Now, unless we nab the #3 spot in the draft and get MKG we likely don't pick a SF. I think that we're getting a SF through a trade or signing anyway. If we don't trade said pick to land that SF then Marshall seems to be a good option if Lamb isn't there. But with everything being said by the organization we'll have a new starting SF next season. Things could change, but that seems to be where we're going.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
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OK, to clarify some things on SFs:

1. MKG is a terrific defender and rebounder (at least at the college level), but he is not an outside threat. Am I wrong?

2. Barnes is an outside threat, but not a hustler or a great defender. Am I wrong?

As far as JJ and Kleiza are concerned:

1. JJ is absolutely the prototypical modern SF. His outside shooting has improved, his defense has been the best on the team, at least among the perimeter guys, he is an unselfish offensive player capable of creating for others. His decision-making can stand to improve as is his shooting, but I absolutely fail to see how is he not a starting quality player.

2. Kleiza is a more than capable backup, and at his pay grade, not even an overpriced one. Considering his .346 three-point shooting percentage and the fact that his presence will absolutely help JV's transition, why would you want to move him?

3. Last, but not the least - none of them needs minutes @ PF. Both could play the position, in small lineups, which is a huge luxury to have, but they do not add to the PF glut per se.

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Old 04-30-2012, 02:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Marshall's ceiling is essentially a better Jose. Not great athleticism, not great defensively, not great at getting to the rim. But he will make everyone better offensively, knows where to get the guys the ball in their spots, doesn't turn the ball over, and is capable of contributing offensively when necessary.

Anyone who watched him in the last 5-10 games of the season can attest that he turned it on offensively and showed a whole different dynamic to his game. I don't think his offense is a big weakness like some make it out to be.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
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OK, to clarify some things on SFs:

1. MKG is a terrific defender and rebounder (at least at the colleger level), but he is not an outside threat. Am I wrong?

2. Barnes is an outside threat, but not a hustler or a great defender. Am I wrong?

As far as JJ and Kleiza are concerned:

1. JJ is absolutely the prototypical modern SF. His outside shooting has improved, his defense has been the best on the team, at least among the perimeter guys, he is an unselfish offensive player capable of creating for others. His decision-making can stand to improve as is his shooting, but I absolutely fail to see how is he not a starting quality player.

2. Kleiza is a more than capable backup, and at his pay grade, not even an overpriced one. Considering his .346 three-point shooting percentage and the fact that his presence will absolutely help JV's transition, why would you want to move him?

3. Last, but not the least - none of them needs minutes @ PF. Both could play the position, in small lineups, which is a huge luxury to have, but they do not add to the PF glut per se.
agree with everything you said there.

if we want outside shooting it needs to come from FA or maybe a trade at PG or SG. Assuming beal and barnes are gone by our pick. I want to see if JJ can take another jump as well. I would rather trade for one elite level player rather than fill every position that is less than play-iff level in our team. I still believe there are players that can raise their level significantly.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Marshall's ceiling is essentially a better Jose. Not great athleticism, not great defensively, not great at getting to the rim.
Forget great, we got that. Can he do it? Specifically, at his size (6'4", 195 lbs, great for a point), can he dunk the ball? Can he finish above the rim?
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:22 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Forget great, we got that. Can he do it? Specifically, at his size (6'4", 195 lbs, great for a point), can he dunk the ball? Can he finish above the rim?
No, not his game at all. I can't recall ever seeing him dunk the ball in two seasons of watching him. He doesn't have great foot speed either. Relies on mental advantages, something like you'd see from Nash, to make up for it.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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No, not his game at all. I can't recall ever seeing him dunk the ball in two seasons of watching him. He doesn't have great foot speed either. Relies on mental advantages, something like you'd see from Nash, to make up for it.
I see, thanks. You know what? I'd be fine with him. If he is smart, he will find the way to improve his shooting, develop a floater in the lane and compensate for lack of foot speed defensively. Worst case scenario - we are going to get a hell of a backup PG.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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We're getting a new starting SF this summer. Hell, BC's exact words on JJ last week was he was inconsistent at times and has holes in his game. And on kleiza he said he was inconsistent after coming off major surgery. He's far from sold on both as starters. And if we want to improve next season we need to upgrade that spot imo. He even said that if they get a better deal for SG that they'd consider it and possibly move DD to SF. He said that a couple months ago but that type of move wouldn't shock me. Nobody, from the GM on down to the analysts are saying JJ or Kleiza are starter material. I think one is gone this summer.
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