If a new GM is brought in....
Old 12-08-2012, 12:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
at MSG failing a pointless 360 degree dunk during a losing streak

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Before Colangelo came in, Wayne Embry cleaned house.

If a new GM is brought in, can this fanbase stomach another total housecleaning and rebuild? i.e. trade redundancies, trade next year's expirings, pick up 2013 and 2014 picks, acquire youth, stink up 2013.

uneducated guesses:

expire Calderon
amnesty Kleiza
Bargs trade
Fileds trade
Lucas and Gray expirings trade
some how, some way acquire a near all-star level SF


remnants:

Lowry/X
Derozan/Ross
X/Anderson
Ed/X
JV/Amir
15-20 mil under cap
2 picks in 2014

It hurts to go through it again, but if you are like me, you are not sure you can watch gutless play anymore anyway. If it doesn't turn around, is there really a choice?
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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BC goes nowhere. He drafted JV, that earns him 10 years of guaranteed workplace
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
at MSG failing a pointless 360 degree dunk during a losing streak

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BC goes nowhere. He drafted JV, that earns him 10 years of guaranteed workplace
Traditionally, our owners MLSE would let a guy miss the playoffs perpetually. But since there is no hockey, the true cash cow making a profit of at least 70 million a year, the spotlight is super bright on Colangelo's forehead. They did not need all this ill will.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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DD making 10M next year on a rebuilding squad and jacking up uncontested spinning fades because it looks better is not something I'm looking forward to.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Can we stomach a rebuild? We're handicapped in any rebuild thanks to BC guaranteeing our pick to OKC for Lowry who is going to leave.

Any rebuild is going to have to be at least 2 seasons long thanks to BC's terrible decision.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
at MSG failing a pointless 360 degree dunk during a losing streak

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Can we stomach a rebuild? We're handicapped in any rebuild thanks to BC guaranteeing our pick to OKC for Lowry who is going to leave.

Any rebuild is going to have to be at least 2 seasons long thanks to BC's terrible decision.
I agree that we wouldn't be talking about a 1 year re-build, but you could have said we were handicapped with Jalen Rose, Jermaine O'neal, Kapono, Hedo.......

Lowry is still an asset. There's always a way to make changes. It's just a matter of what your aim is. A treadmill or a slow and steady climb.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You guys want real, lasting success? Give the team four seasons, including this one. The fourth season I think we would make the playoffs, but only 7-8th seed. From there, the sky's the limit. JV would start rounding into all-star form, DeMar would be in his prime, Ed and Ross will be more of a known quantity, the bad contracts should be gone (hopefully), we'd be well out of the BC era of mistakes and any new draft picks (save the 2015 one) would have a year or more under their belts and be ready to contribute. Plus the Celts and Knicks will be completely different, likely for the worse.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
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This will be the 5th straight season without playoffs, if anyone thinks we're going to completely blow this whole team up again while we're essentially still one of the youngest teams in the league, just two years into a current rebuild you're crazy. Not gonna happen, especially not after giving away a likely top 5-6 pick for Lowry. They'll retool while getting rid of our worst contracts (other than Fields imo) and try to add to a core of 6-7 players and try to convince Lowry to extend here.

IMO-

Players they'll keep:
Derozan
Lowry (unless he gives them no indication he will consider staying)
Valanciunas
Ross
Davis
Pietrus (i have a feeling they sign him next summer)
Acy (cheap as fuck)

Players they'll trade or amnesty or release:
Bargnani
Calderon
Kleiza
Amir
JL3
Gray



The only player that i look at and could see being either or, is Allan Anderson. He's cheap, can defend and is a decent player to have off the bench. I could also see them throwing him in as filler in any potential trade.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
This will be the 5th straight season without playoffs, if anyone think we're going to completely blow this whole team up again while we're essentially still one of the youngest teams in the league, just two years into a current rebuild you're crazy. Not gonna happen, especially not after giving away a likely top 5-6 pick for Lowry. They'll retool while getting rid of our worst contracts (other than Fields imo) and try to add to a core of 6-7 players and try to convince Lowry to extend here.

IMO-

Players they'll keep:
Derozan
Lowry (unless he gives them no inclination he will consider staying)
Valanciunas
Ross
Davis
Pietrus (i have a feeling they sign him next summer)
Acy (cheap as fuck)

Players they'll trade or amnesty or release:
Bargnani
Calderon
Kleiza
Amir
JL3
Gray



The only player that i look at and could see being either or, is Allan Anderson. He's cheap, can defend and is a decent player to have off the bench. I could also see them throwing him in as filler in any potential trade.
Well said.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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it feels like out of our near 20 year history we've been "rebuilding" for 16 of it. I'm sick of this. no more rebuild. We have talent on this squad, no need to go into a crapshoot like the draft which could be rigged hoping for the best. build around lowry, a near all star level pg right now, JV, a potential future all star, and Demar, a sg who is well worth the 10 million. see what fields can provide but if a good deal comes along before that do it. let's trade for some players who can play defence first and foremost and can shoot the ball. we have two slashers on the starting lineup, a shooter rookie in ross, and a big body/skilled centre in JV. now just get a pf like millsap and a defence first+excellent shooter sf like deng and we're set.

NO MORE REBUILD
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Seriously how could you already trade Fields???
He hasn't even had a chance to prove whether or not he can live up to his contract.
Also, his value is at an alltime low currently, with the injury and all...
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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it feels like out of our near 20 year history we've been "rebuilding" for 16 of it. I'm sick of this. no more rebuild. We have talent on this squad, no need to go into a crapshoot like the draft which could be rigged hoping for the best. build around lowry, a near all star level pg right now, JV, a potential future all star, and Demar, a sg who is well worth the 10 million. see what fields can provide but if a good deal comes along before that do it. let's trade for some players who can play defence first and foremost and can shoot the ball. we have two slashers on the starting lineup, a shooter rookie in ross, and a big body/skilled centre in JV. now just get a pf like millsap and a defence first+excellent shooter sf like deng and we're set.

NO MORE REBUILD
This seems like it'll be a retool while dumping some salary, then bring in more salary on players that may fit better.

Trade- Bargs, Calderon, Kleiza (bring in 2 solid players and maybe a decent pick)

Amnesty Amir Johnson (insert Kleiza if Amir can fetch more in a trade)

Release- Gray, JL3 (i think both still have a year left after this season???)
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Beyond JV and Ross you really look to move everyone and they're on the list because of their contracts. Not even upside at the moment (we don't know what that is and I'm sick of thinking about it).

You list everyone else as available since everyone else has been a part of a culture of losing.

The team needs a good dose of intelligent veterans in the worse way and really needs to really, really suck for a couple of years to get a stud in the draft.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Beyond JV and Ross you really look to move everyone and they're on the list because of their contracts. Not even upside at the moment (we don't know what that is and I'm sick of thinking about it).

You list everyone else as available since everyone else has been a part of a culture of losing.

The team needs a good dose of intelligent veterans in the worse way and really needs to really, really suck for a couple of years to get a stud in the draft.
You've joined joined the dark side???
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Would gladly accept a proper rebuid. I understand that BC had to accelerate it to save his job, but by doing so inadequately, he has set this team back another couple years and worn out his welcome.

Other than Shabazz the 2013 class staggeringly weak. So losing the pick, in my mind, isn't disasterous. I would tank hard for Wiggins/Parker. Meaning, if you're not named Jonas or Terrence, you're on the block.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
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You've joined joined the dark side???
It's not so much the dark side as it's something I've been thinking about for a few years. We've wanted to compare ourselves to OKC for quite some time, but they had KEVIN DURANT. Our best player is who?

If you're honest with yourself, ask, is this a team that has parts to win a championship? I don't see it. Our goals was to make the playoffs. That's where we are.

I'd be thrilled if this year we land Zeller and next year, somehow land Wiggins to add to a core of JV and Ross and you're in a real good position with legit upside on cheap contracts. Add a few shrewd pieces and away you go.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I like Lowry. Now. But I'm not so sure he will age well. As a smaller, scoring-minded PG reliant on quickness, who is somewhat injury prone, I'm not a fan of handing him a pudgy contract.

I would start shopping him now to maximize his value, seeking a blue chipper in return, or to dump a guy like Fields or Amir with him. For teams interested, he offers two playoff runs at a cheap salary. He's our best player, but he's not elite, and doesn't fit my vision of a rebuild.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
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It's not so much the dark side as it's something I've been thinking about for a few years. We've wanted to compare ourselves to OKC for quite some time, but they had KEVIN DURANT. Our best player is who?

If you're honest with yourself, ask, is this a team that has parts to win a championship? I don't see it. Our goals was to make the playoffs. That's where we are.

I'd be thrilled if this year we land Zeller and next year, somehow land Wiggins to add to a core of JV and Ross and you're in a real good position with legit upside on cheap contracts. Add a few shrewd pieces and away you go.
if the worst team was guaranteed the first pick, then sure. but with most chances of .250 of winning it, and a chance to drop to fourth even with the worst record, is it really a smart thing to do? also, zeller, and wiggin, can both end up being busts. we know demar can straight up ball, and lowry. better keeping the known quantities for a slight chance at a possibly better quantity in rooks.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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This is my personal stance as of today,and I hope I can stick to it.

I've supported this team in many ways for years since the very beginning as a kid and what's been going over the past few seasons has me disgruntled. I'm fed up with the franchise,mainly with ownership and management. I've always laughed at and blamed Maple Leafs fans for supporting a perennial loser but I'd be a hyprocrite if I do the same in supporting the Raptors the way things have been. I'm wasting my energy and its driving me crazy almost lol. Until Andrea Bargnani is traded at the very least or if Bryan Colangelo is dismissed (which will ultimately lead to a Bargnani trade),I'm not following this team anymore. They got to get this shit fixed ASAP. I feel like they(MLSE & the Raptors organization) is jerking the fans around and I had enough. Every summer its the same shit,they sell you a dream about what this team is gonna be then it turns out to be the very opposite,false hope is what I call it. I'm through with this regime. I enjoy watching DeRozan,Lowry,Valanciunas and I believe in Davis. Outside of that,I don't care who remains on the roster. I'm done buying the wooden nickel.....okay,that's my rant for the day!
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:34 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Demar is terrible and lowry is ugh, don't get me started.
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