How is it possible to re-sign Marion after signing Turkoglu?
Old 07-06-2009, 03:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
:(

Raptors/ChelseaFC/Cowboys
 
CripwalkinK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Richmond Hill
Posts: 337
Representing:
Default How is it possible to re-sign Marion after signing Turkoglu?

Just a question, I've seen lots of people here talking about this but I'm not quite sure how it would work without having to pay the luxury tax. I need some one to explain this furthermore.
CripwalkinK is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 04:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
a dick

Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,138
Representing:
Default

It would all come down to Bird rights. The Raptors have Bird rights on Marion. If a team is over cap and they have bird rights on a player they can still sign him to up to a max deal. Hedo has signed nothing yet and so there is still time to do a sign and trade.
Apollo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 04:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
www.torontoraptorsforum.com

giant steps
 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,191
Representing:
Default

orlando still owns hedo's cap hold until he signs with another team. we could, in theory, trade or s&t something to orlando for turkoglu and still re-sign shawn over the cap b/c we have his bird rights. that's the only scenario i can think of. we could also create cap space by sending someone else out (like banks) to a team with space and take back only a pick or something of no financial value. jakkal/ligeia - any other options?
'trane is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 04:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
is back baby

Large and in charge
 
Snooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All up in there
Posts: 8,248
Representing:
Default

No true Apollo but close.

A team either needs to resign their current free agents, or renounce their rights before they can go after new free agents, you cannot use capspace to sign other free agents in the league and still use your bird rights on your own.

The Raps need to create capspace in order to sign a free agent not of their own for more than the MLE or other.

In the case of the Raps if they renounce the rights of every free agent they have it will give them about 12 million under the cap as it is expected to be(58 million).

Turk contract is going to start somewhere between around 9 million for the first year so the most room the team will have outside of theat is 3 million to spend.

However, if a player or 2 are traded(Hump, Banks, etc) for strictly capspace or deals of lesser value this will give the team a little more wiggle room under the cap.

The possibilty for Marion is that if the Raps can make those deals, waive Jawai, and Turks contract starts closer to 8 then 9, then that would allow the Raps to spend up to but not exceeding the cap.(allow to spend around 6 million)

This would leave very little to fill out the bench as all we would be able to use are league minimum contracts, but we would have an incredibly solid starting lineup.

However I can see BC using that aforementioned 6 or 7 million potential capspace to get 2 or mabey even 3 guys as opposed to just Marion. eg: Kleiza, Delfino, Jones.
Snooch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
is dead inside

you ain't bout that life
 
Gurk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,015
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
orlando still owns hedo's cap hold until he signs with another team. we could, in theory, trade or s&t something to orlando for turkoglu and still re-sign shawn over the cap b/c we have his bird rights. that's the only scenario i can think of. we could also create cap space by sending someone else out (like banks) to a team with space and take back only a pick or something of no financial value. jakkal/ligeia - any other options?
Can we trade a 2nd round pick for S&T Hedo??? Would that be possible
Gurk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
is back baby

Large and in charge
 
Snooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All up in there
Posts: 8,248
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurk View Post
Can we trade a 2nd round pick for S&T Hedo??? Would that be possible
Yup, but only if we have enough room under cap to do so, in this case we do, so then why would we trade away a pick?
Snooch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 07:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3
Representing:
Default

@snooch: wouldn't the raps also have the bi-annual exception (1.8mil) on top of the said 5-6 million? 7-8 sounds about enough to get some bench production next year

likewise, why is everyone talking about hump & banks, wouldnt it be much easier to trade delfino/parker for cap relief? i mean sure, BC wants to sign one of them but getting some cap space would still be better than renouncing all of them and filling the roster with players at min. salary
martin is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 07:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
is back baby

Large and in charge
 
Snooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All up in there
Posts: 8,248
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin View Post
@snooch: wouldn't the raps also have the bi-annual exception (1.8mil) on top of the said 5-6 million? 7-8 sounds about enough to get some bench production next year

likewise, why is everyone talking about hump & banks, wouldnt it be much easier to trade delfino/parker for cap relief? i mean sure, BC wants to sign one of them but getting some cap space would still be better than renouncing all of them and filling the roster with players at min. salary
Yes it would be easier, as long as the team has the neccessary cap room to be able to accept such a trade.

Cleavland has reported interest in AP, but they are over cap. They can only offer AP the MLE, nothing to the raps.
Snooch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 08:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
Kuzzy
is pounding the rock! (Edit)

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Representing:
Default

morris peterson is coming back to the t-dot
  Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 08:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
is dead inside

you ain't bout that life
 
Gurk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,015
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuzzy View Post
morris peterson is coming back to the t-dot
Where does it say that??
Gurk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 08:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3
Representing:
Default

ah well, so basically we can only unload any of our players for cap relief if the other team is under the cap ... if i dont miss anything that means we should try talking memphis/okc in taking humphries/banks/evans off our hands since ap prolly wouldn't wanna play there.. sacramento wants to cut their pay roll, atlanta and portland are already loaded with wing players and detroit, well maybe we could s&t AP there if they do the rip-boozer trade and need a backup sg?

also, how could we move delfino? i dont really get how him being a restricted fa would affect the situation?
martin is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 08:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
is back baby

Large and in charge
 
Snooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All up in there
Posts: 8,248
Representing:
Default

There is no real sense to s&t anyone for capspace, you would maybe get a protected 2nd round pick or something.

If team is gonna do a trade for capspace it should be involving unneeded players sstill under contract(Im looking at you Hump) and attempt a buyout of Banks(if it would save you at least 1/3 total salary.
Snooch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 10:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
an anti-social person

Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 246
Representing:
Default

Why can't we sign Marion under the cap if we have his Bird rights? isn't that what bird rights are for?
jepot is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 10:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
www.torontoraptorsforum.com

giant steps
 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,191
Representing:
Default

that would be signing him over the cap, not under, which we could do, but that would take all the money that is being offered to hedo. this has been gone over many, many times in the turkoglu thread. try looking there for the analysis.
'trane is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 02:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
in dire need of a drink ...hic

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 706
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
orlando still owns hedo's cap hold until he signs with another team. we could, in theory, trade or s&t something to orlando for turkoglu and still re-sign shawn over the cap b/c we have his bird rights. that's the only scenario i can think of. we could also create cap space by sending someone else out (like banks) to a team with space and take back only a pick or something of no financial value. jakkal/ligeia - any other options?


i dunno. think you know more about trades then i do. I just read up how the financials work not everything else.

if you know of some good links that explain trade rules i'll gladly read up on them.
Jakkal is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 02:23 AM   #16 (permalink)
in dire need of a drink ...hic

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 706
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooch View Post
No true Apollo but close.

A team either needs to resign their current free agents, or renounce their rights before they can go after new free agents, you cannot use capspace to sign other free agents in the league and still use your bird rights on your own.

The Raps need to create capspace in order to sign a free agent not of their own for more than the MLE or other.

In the case of the Raps if they renounce the rights of every free agent they have it will give them about 12 million under the cap as it is expected to be(58 million).

Turk contract is going to start somewhere between around 9 million for the first year so the most room the team will have outside of theat is 3 million to spend.

However, if a player or 2 are traded(Hump, Banks, etc) for strictly capspace or deals of lesser value this will give the team a little more wiggle room under the cap.

The possibilty for Marion is that if the Raps can make those deals, waive Jawai, and Turks contract starts closer to 8 then 9, then that would allow the Raps to spend up to but not exceeding the cap.(allow to spend around 6 million)

This would leave very little to fill out the bench as all we would be able to use are league minimum contracts, but we would have an incredibly solid starting lineup.

However I can see BC using that aforementioned 6 or 7 million potential capspace to get 2 or mabey even 3 guys as opposed to just Marion. eg: Kleiza, Delfino, Jones.
well said. but didn't BC guarantee Turk he'd give him every dollar he could. so rather then 6-8 mil it'll be 10+... i think that's how it was reported.
Jakkal is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 02:26 AM   #17 (permalink)
in dire need of a drink ...hic

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 706
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooch View Post
There is no real sense to s&t anyone for capspace, you would maybe get a protected 2nd round pick or something.

If team is gonna do a trade for capspace it should be involving unneeded players sstill under contract(Im looking at you Hump) and attempt a buyout of Banks(if it would save you at least 1/3 total salary.
buyouts still count against cap right? like the broken leg issue we had with the spanish player. He was on the books for basically his full salary. I never understood why they just didn't keep his rights. Sorry tired... his name eludes me at the moment.
Jakkal is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 02:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
ballinnnnnn

Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 308
Representing:
Default

Off the top of my head I would say that the raps should renounce everyone except Delfino and/or Graham. I mean their current qualifying offers are between 2 and 3 million. By keeping one or both of them and signing Hedo, at least there is some depth. Some people said "why would the raps s&t parker/marion" Well the answer is TRADE EXCEPTION! When the sonics s&t'd Ricky Lewis (I call him that...dont judge) they had a huge trade exception, and if the raps can get the same then they would be able to use that exception to acquire depth from teams in financial duress, such as Sac-town or NO. And we could...sigh...get MO Pete back (which is funny cuz that guy said it before). But seriously, any ideas on what to do? this is fun brainstorming...i feel like an assistant gm.
jakapono24 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 07:36 AM   #19 (permalink)
walking

Junior Member
 
zava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6
Representing:
Default

we don't need Marion.For the last couple of years, he has not contributed enough to be pursued.
zava is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2009, 07:40 AM   #20 (permalink)
is back baby

Large and in charge
 
Snooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All up in there
Posts: 8,248
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakkal View Post
buyouts still count against cap right? like the broken leg issue we had with the spanish player. He was on the books for basically his full salary. I never understood why they just didn't keep his rights. Sorry tired... his name eludes me at the moment.
Yes, GARBAJOSA was bought out at the no discout to the team though.

A player who is bought out has his total agreed upon buy out amount divided amungst the number of years left on his contract and the total is what counts against the teams cap.
Snooch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bleacher Report: Why Signing Hedo Turkoglu Makes Sense Thug Toronto Raptors 20 10-17-2009 02:00 AM
Turkoglu signing should be celebrated Thug Toronto Raptors 48 07-10-2009 12:35 PM
Grange: Raptors Close to Signing Marion (Update Pg. 3) jeffb Toronto Raptors 137 07-05-2009 12:05 AM
Swirsky: Raptors may pass on Marion to sign Turkoglu jeffb Toronto Raptors 94 06-18-2009 08:52 PM
RUMOUR: Marion Isn't Re-Signing With Toronto Dr. J. Naismith Toronto Raptors 49 03-08-2009 06:28 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24